RCBot2: suggestions, As the topic sez... some suggestions for future RC Bot releases Options

[madmax2]

cheeseh:
I can specify which line, and the colour of each line, which is useful for waypoint types, I can also format the text, whereas the previous one I have to format it myself

Oh okay, sounds like you allready did it the best way possible, dang source sdk limits and all...

genmac:
Hehe I don't really use that...I just go for the obvious.
I can't even seem to recall the exact command for that so plz do tell me
so I can check it out.

Sure... here you go...

First use "rcbot debug bot botname"

Then use "rcbot debug hud 1" to enable the hud on botname

genmac:
wpt menu is definitely way way way better now that I figured it out how to use it.
Probably need some detailed explanation for first time users who might forget to stand or touch a wpt
first to make the menu work.

Actually, it can be activated without touching a wpt (this is new I believe), then you can run over to the wpt you want to edit. Then over to another wpt you want to edit without exiting the menu, and so on... Which is a very nice feature I forgot to mention above...

[genmac]

Yeah the new wpt menu is a heaven sent compared to the old one.
But I still want a solid block givetype thing hehe.

[madmax2]

Cheeseh:

I can order the waypoint types by importance next release if you'd like to do that, let me know which waypoint types you think are most important in order and I can use your ranking.

Ok, here is the waypoint menu flags order I came up with for dods:

Waypoint Flags

First page
1. noaxis
2. noallies
3. defend
4. sniper
5. machinegun
6. crouch
7. prone
8. jump

[edit] I allready thought of a change.. I reversed #1 & #2, I think those should be the same order as they appear in the game & rcbot... allies then axis... so I swapped them....

Second page
1. unreachable
2. ladder
3. fall
4. capture
5. bombs
6. bomb to open
7. breakable
8. openslater

Third page - These appear to be for tf2 or hldm2 and may not be needed??? But leave any you think could be useful for dods now, or in the future....

area only - tf2 only? for areas that become available later, via script?
waitopen - tf2 only ... req script?
lift - tf2 & hldm2? I suppose there could besome dods map that has a functioning lift???

Of coarse 9 & 0 are reserved for back & next....

Here was my thinking on the first & second pages.. Initially it was order of high use & group like items together. On the first page in particular, I tried to add speed so you can move left to right and quickly add multiple flags. I had jump at 1 or 3 at one point, but think it is less likely to be combined with other flags.

So, if you like to give multiple flags for prone/sniper/mg, its either 1,4,5,7 or 2,4,5,7. I put defend at 3 next to noallies/noaxis just because I think defend is used more...

Crouch & prone could be either way I suppose, maybe some of you would prefer prone right under mg? I even had it that way at one point, with sniper right above it, swapped with mg. But for some reason my brain seems to be wired to think sniper then mg in that order and crouch then prone. Might be because of my key binds, heh heh? We could move prone up a slot if anyone thinks that would be better. I suppose one could over think this, it's harder than I thought it would be, and there are different ways it could be done...

With the second page, I just tried to group simular items and put high use at the top. I wanted openslater close to breakable and bomb to open. I figure unreachable is fairly high use, but are usually added later in the waypoint process and don't need a team flag, so it ended up on this page.

So nows the time for input if any other waypointers have different ideas? I think this is a good order, but maybe something could be better, and am open to changes...

Hope I didn't forget anything...
max

[genmac]

Max listing looks a lot more organized.

Does the capture givetype truly forces the bots now to capture an area even if it ain't auto detected?

[chezman]

My only suggestion would be support for the insurgency mod

[genmac]

My only suggestion would be support for the insurgency mod

http://www.moddb.com/mods/insurgency
Hmmm mod seems dead but looks cool.

[chezman]

People still play it and it's still really fun.

[madmax2]

Hey cheeseh,

A few rcbot2 feature questions/requests...

1. Do you plan to add an autowaypoint option? I really like the way it works in rcbot1. It would speed up the task of doing the main routes in dods, leaving more time to setup attack/defend points, and refine the waypoint.

2. Could you add audio feedback for add/delete waypoints and create/remove paths, like in rcbot1? Not sure if others would like it, but I find it really helps....

3. Do you think a "stay close to" givetype/tag would be useful? I havn't needed it yet, but there have been places I could of used it, but I used crouch instead. I haven't done any ladders yet, so i'm not sure about this, but it might help with the issue genmac was talking about with ladders? With rcbot1, it really helps with tight right angle approaches to ladders (free standing ladders too, so they don't get behind them so much), using 3 wpts at the bottom of the ladder, something like this at the bottom:

CODE

NWP--SCT  (extreme example, usually more than 90 degrees)
      |
     NWP
      |
     LWP

It's useful for other things on rcbot1, too... (difficult jumps, pulling bots closer to wpts, tight & problem doors, etc)

4. Oh, and thanks for your work on the waypoint menu ... Is there any way you can keep next/back or back/next on 9 & 0, reserve those slots for them? They change depending on the number of items in the menu...

Or

[edit] Just had an idea about this, it might work good to move next/back to 1 & 2, then shift everything 2 slots. Then they would be right above the movement keys. Just for the menus that have multiple pages of course... Would that make it easier to keep them in the same slots from page to page? What do you think?

Later,
max

[Cheeseh]

Hey cheeseh,

A few rcbot2 feature questions/requests...

1. Do you plan to add an autowaypoint option? I really like the way it works in rcbot1. It would speed up the task of doing the main routes in dods, leaving more time to setup attack/defend points, and refine the waypoint.

2. Could you add audio feedback for add/delete waypoints and create/remove paths, like in rcbot1? Not sure if others would like it, but I find it really helps....

3. Do you think a "stay close to" givetype/tag would be useful? I havn't needed it yet, but there have been places I could of used it, but I used crouch instead. I haven't done any ladders yet, so i'm not sure about this, but it might help with the issue genmac was talking about with ladders? With rcbot1, it really helps with tight right angle approaches to ladders (free standing ladders too, so they don't get behind them so much), using 3 wpts at the bottom of the ladder, something like this at the bottom:

CODE

NWP--SCT  (extreme example, usually more than 90 degrees)
      |
     NWP
      |
     LWP

It's useful for other things on rcbot1, too... (difficult jumps, pulling bots closer to wpts, tight & problem doors, etc)

4. Oh, and thanks for your work on the waypoint menu ... Is there any way you can keep next/back or back/next on 9 & 0, reserve those slots for them? They change depending on the number of items in the menu...

Or

[edit] Just had an idea about this, it might work good to move next/back to 1 & 2, then shift everything 2 slots. Then they would be right above the movement keys. Just for the menus that have multiple pages of course... Would that make it easier to keep them in the same slots from page to page? What do you think?

Later,
max

hey madmax sry for the late reply, finally did some work today with rcbot2

autowaypointing
I took the old autowaypoint code and fit it into rcbot2 with extra stuff, it works great

The bot will automatically add sniper points when you kill someone using a sniper rifle from afar.

It will automatically add sentry points / tele points in tf2 when you place a sentry/teleporter and flag/capture points when picking up the flag or capturing.

I'm not so sure stay close to waypoints would be too useful, I could just add code to make bots wait for a sec before they go to a ladder waypoint, shouldn't be difficult to do

I was playing a map with no waypoints, never had to use any waypoint commands, just autowaypoint and play the map myself for a bit, then the bots were off capturing flags and building sentries etc in tf2

waypoint sounds
I also added waypoint sounds, just like rcbot1

waypoint menu
as for the waypoint menu, i've still to add that option.

sprinting
I've also fixed bots sprinting in dod:s

[genmac]

sprinting
I've also fixed bots sprinting in dod:s

That one really took my attention...hope to test it soon.
Btw how about hl2dm bot sprints? It's still kinda subtle there but they do sprint a little but not long enough.

[madmax2]

Hey Cheeseh,

Yeah, all of it sounds good, especially the autowaypointing part, which is very cool:

Cheeseh:
I was playing a map with no waypoints, never had to use any waypoint commands, just autowaypoint and play the map myself for a bit, then the bots were off capturing flags and building sentries etc in tf2

Sounds like, I could be out of a job, heh heh....

I guess i'll just pile on another request (actually more of a reminder or repeat request). I'm not sure about TF2, but in DODs I think it would be good to have bots face yaw on defend wpts, instead of the flag. It often seems better to place defend wpts in front of the flag instead of behind it (or in both locations). I'd like to control which way they face in DODs, so they can see the enemy approaching better. Doe's that make sence to you?? I think genmac wants this too?...

Anyways, thanks for the new improvements, and I look forward to trying them out...

max

[genmac]

Auto wpt is very usable on wider open space maps but manual placement of wpt and paths still is the most optimize way to wpt the bot less cpu usage as well I think since I wpt the bot in a more straight forward manner and no over lapping paths unless I really need some that way bot have less paths to choose from just the ones that truly needed.

And yeah hehe the defend wpts...as suggested if still possible just to make them face where the yaw is directed.

Also a Force Capture wpt so bots can capture areas where the flag is somewhere else unreachable by bots just like this map...dod_rouen...the flag was way way up had to make them crouch and circle around to cap it. I connected the elevated capture wpt so bots knows it's there but on
dod_hill_classic....the auto gen capture wpt inside the fortress is nowhere to be found so hope you can create a force cap wpt soon.

[madmax2]

Auto wpt is very usable on wider open space maps but manual placement of wpt and paths still is the most optimize way to wpt the bot less cpu usage as well I think since I wpt the bot in a more straight forward manner and no over lapping paths unless I really need some that way bot have less paths to choose from just the ones that truly needed.

Hi genmac,

I agree with what you are saying, manual placement is most efficient use of CPU, and I don't like double paths either... But, Cheeseh has the autowaypoint function working pretty good in rcbot1, so you might be pleasantly surprized at how well it can work... With rcbot1, if you keep moving & plan where you are going, you won't get double paths very often. And with audio feedback, you can know where to stop moving, back track onto the placed waypoints and it won't drop new ones. Yeah, I was mainly thinking of using this for the main pathways in a map. But, rcbot1 autowpt works well in narrow places too, if you can keep moving. I usually don't use autowpt in tight places, though... On many rcws, i didn't use it at all, but then I started using it for parts of maps, and have found it to be very useful...

rcbot2 autowaypoint sounds more advance than rcbot1, with some auto givetypes. So I'm very curious to see how well it works in rcbot2, I think it will be a good tool to have...

max

[Cheeseh]

Auto wpt is very usable on wider open space maps but manual placement of wpt and paths still is the most optimize way to wpt the bot less cpu usage as well I think since I wpt the bot in a more straight forward manner and no over lapping paths unless I really need some that way bot have less paths to choose from just the ones that truly needed.

And yeah hehe the defend wpts...as suggested if still possible just to make them face where the yaw is directed.

Also a Force Capture wpt so bots can capture areas where the flag is somewhere else unreachable by bots just like this map...dod_rouen...the flag was way way up had to make them crouch and circle around to cap it. I connected the elevated capture wpt so bots knows it's there but on
dod_hill_classic....the auto gen capture wpt inside the fortress is nowhere to be found so hope you can create a force cap wpt soon.

You shouldn't need to add another waypoint type. With the latest version of the bot all you should be able to do is add a capture waypoint manually and give it the correct area. Remove any other capture points with the same area. Then restart the round. If all goes well the bots should use that waypoint as the capture waypoint for the flag of the area you gave it.

btw the sprinting is still very sporadic in dod:s, can't seem to get it to last for more than a split second, but I can see they ARE sprinting

[Root]

Hi Cheeseh!
Good to know that RCBot is still under development and developer is active!
I'd like to request a few things in DoD:S. Those are should not be hard to implement (I already tried, and a few of those are working, but not properly sometimes). Seems like too many random seed are used in code

• Automatically +duck bots which is shooting by BAR/STG44 and thompson/MP40 (sometimes) to reduce recoil (or at least it looks more realistic). This should looks like that in bot_dod_bot.cpp
  
  CODE
  
  bool CDODBot :: handleAttack ( CBotWeapon *pWeapon, edict_t *pEnemy )
  {
          // ... Previous code there
          // It's when bot should attack
          if ( bAttack && (m_fShootTime < engine->Time()) )
          {
              primaryAttack(); // shoot
              m_fShootTime = engine->Time() + fDelay;
  
              // Check for current weapon
              if ((pWeapon->getID()==DOD_WEAPON_BAR)||(pWeapon->getID()==DOD_WEAPON_MP44)
              ||  (pWeapon->getID()==DOD_WEAPON_M1)||(pWeapon->getID()==DOD_WEAPON_C96)
              &&  (distanceFrom(pEnemy) > 700 ))
              {
                  // +duck if enemy is far away for 700 units?
                  duck();
              }
              else if (distanceFrom(pEnemy) < 500)
              {
                  m_pButtons->tap(IN_DUCK);
              }
          }
  }
  
• Make bots less prone! They prone too offten I guess.
• Dont undeploy MG/Rocket when enemy is around. I seen how bots are deploying/undeploying their weapons for a few times without shooting at enemy. So they looping their deploying until death or when enemy goes far away.
• Make snipers more accurate. Snipers are easy to kill since they mostly stay at a same place. To make snipers more balanced, better accuracy is necessary.
• Make bots not 'floating around' that much when they run somewhere. I seen many many times (especially on donner map) when bots are goes in dangerous place 'back forward' (i.e. looking back). In other words they just run at _me_ and dont look/shoot at me at all (sorry for my english, its hard to translate into english, so I hope you understand)
• Add more commentaries into RCBot2 source code so it will be better to understand and fix whatever/make requests (at least for me)
• Fix bomb defusing. While bots are defusing bomb, they should only defuse bomb and ignore enemies at all, or defusing may stop and both objective and a bot will be killed. Also if more three players are defusing, no more players should defuse a bomb. Otherwise defusing will stop for all those 3 players and one more.
• Fix generic bugs with bots (when player disconnected, bots are getting kicked for 'Server is hibernating', and when they reconnect, they just run around and dont do anything, also fix a few crashes related to this thing and when bots are added before player connected, et cetera). I guess a few of them were discussed there.

I will try to make a video when I'll have more time, so it would be easier to you to understand what I meant.
Thank you so much and keep up good work! It's appeciated.

[madmax2]

Hey Root,

Lots of good feedback... Have you edited any of the bots profiles? If not, try turning up some of the settings on all of the profiles, or get genmac's profiles. The default profiles are set to low on many of them... Braveness needs to be higher than the defaults, it will reduce the proneing a lot. Also, other settings will help sniper accuracy... Some of the other issues may improve too?

I'm not sure, but I think I remember reading the backwards running was some what by design, bots keep looking behind, so it's harder to ambush them from behind. The profile settings may reduce this too? Try the profiles and see if it seems better or not... At one point I thought the waypoint yaw had something to do with this, but I can't really see a difference when bots are on normal waypoints, so i don't think waypoint yaw effects backwards running.

Here is an example from one of genmac's profiles. I have all my profiles turned up to this. Some settings can be higher I believe...

# Bot Profile id = 3 : generated by RCBot2 Launcher
name = allies3
visionticks_clients = 2
visionticks = 40
pathticks = 40
braveness = 99
aimskill = 99
sensitivity = 10
team = 2
class = 2

Get genmac's profiles from this post:
http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index....ost&p=11582

And take a look at this...
http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1763

btw, your english isn't bad at all, it's better than many of us yanks...

@Cheeseh
I think it would be a good idea to turn up the settings in the profiles before the next full release, the proneing really doesn't seem bad to me, if the profile settings are turned up... This seems to keep returning as a common complaint....

Btw, its good to hear capture wpts/areas are fixed...

max

[Cheeseh]

Btw, its good to hear capture wpts/areas are fixed...

max

Cheers root for the suggestions

As for the capture wpt areas, what I mean is this should work with the current version. So try it out If it doesn't then I need to fix sth.

[madmax2]

Cheers root for the suggestions

As for the capture wpt areas, what I mean is this should work with the current version. So try it out If it doesn't then I need to fix sth.

Hey genmac,

How u been man... I guess we need to test the capture/flag out again... Did you try as cheeseh suggests? I think set capture wpt to same area as flag, no connected path between them, restart map, etc...

[edit] Guess I just missed you... Well I'll try it out soon anyways....


max

[Root]

Thanks for the tip about profiles!
I've changed both aimskill and visionticks. Seems like bots are react way faster than in previously, and they finally won a few rounds on dod_donner map, even when capturing last CP is hard.
CPU usage was really increased! I guess its caused by visionticks. So I changed it to 73 and its working like a charm on full 32 slot server.
Bots are working so far, but I found noticeable lag:
On dod_jagd map (when axis are running out of spawn area and picking explosives automatically) server is having lag spikes until bots leaves dod_bomb_dispencer area. I have no idea why this is happening (maybe increased aimskill or visionticks or even amount of bots at all?).
If RCBot is using any hook to check whether or not bot is having a TNT, I'd recommend to disable it at all. There are no better way to check TNT than checking 4th slot in player's inventory (next after grenade one).

[Cheeseh]

Thanks for the tip about profiles!
I've changed both aimskill and visionticks. Seems like bots are react way faster than in previously, and they finally won a few rounds on dod_donner map, even when capturing last CP is hard.
CPU usage was really increased! I guess its caused by visionticks. So I changed it to 73 and its working like a charm on full 32 slot server.
Bots are working so far, but I found noticeable lag:
On dod_jagd map (when axis are running out of spawn area and picking explosives automatically) server is having lag spikes until bots leaves dod_bomb_dispencer area. I have no idea why this is happening (maybe increased aimskill or visionticks or even amount of bots at all?).
If RCBot is using any hook to check whether or not bot is having a TNT, I'd recommend to disable it at all. There are no better way to check TNT than checking 4th slot in player's inventory (next after grenade one).

the bots check if they have tnt by checking the weapons they have, it's pretty quick