Lag Problem on Server, Lag Problem when using rcbot Options

[zodiac]

I have a dedicated server, pretty beefy (New Dual Xeon 2.2, 1GB Rambus) and I am having some issues when running the rcbot. I have the dedicated server set to take in 20 people max on server but when I get to having about 12 to 15 (including 4 bots) people on the server I start to see signs of lag, not in the way of FPS but in movement, it starts to slow without hesitation though. As soon as I boot the bots off the server then everything appears fine it appears to be fine I can not suport up to 20 people. In thinking that maybe I needed some additional frames I installed Adminmod/Metamod with a Adminmod Booster product (for dual processors) and that has alievieated some of the problem depending on how many people were attached at the time. I think what I am needing is finding that happy medium in the configuration of the bot itself. I left the setting at default and that is what I am using. I know that the bot/cpu parameters can be adjusted but not sure what the best setting is for my system without losing the bot performance also. I know most people do not like bots at all, I do get some complaints (eslecially when it lags). I think that bots are good as long as they are not abused and if they are smart. I found that more people are likely to join a server that has at least 4 players on them (I tried 3 and 2, didn't work) and thats what spawned the idea of using bots to attract players. Any ideas? I also had a though of maybe setting the rcbot so that as people come in if I can automatically boot a bot until they are eventually all gone thus saving the performance. How to I do this? It ther a way to set the min bit or max bits that would do this? Please help, any suggestion woudl be much appreciated.

[Cheeseh]

Bots only cause 'lag' in framerate and not network lag. If the server frame rate is okay then there should be no problems as long as the network can transmit the extra packets to each player about each bot (the bots dont need to send any info) across network as they are on the server anyway).

ps: this is in the FAQ.

[zodiac]

I really appreciate your input on this Cheeseh

I seen this option but doesn't seem to make much difference. Here are by present settings. Also I forgot to mention I am using the Bots with Natural Selection 3.0 Beta 3 and using all Combat maps. I did notice that there was only one Combat map/waypoint set up for rcbot, I think it was co_angst?? If there is no Waypoint for any of the other Combat maps that would mean the rcbot is using alot of CPU especially to be using 4 of them at one time. It there any method for the rcbot to operate at particular CPU speeds? My CPU being Dual 2.2 Xeon processors, I would think that would handle most anything CPU intensive? This is that file as it sits now, any suggestions? I have tried config max_path_revs at 90, and have tried config max_update_vision_revs at 140 (didn't want to go too extreme) what parameters do you think I should be using? Also my network is running at Gigabit Ethernet speed (internal LAN of course) but I have the Gigabit coming in from from the internet to the server also, I know it is nowhere close to being that speed coming out of the wall (DSL) 384up 1.5-6MBDown.

[QUOTE]
config commanding 0
config wait_for_orders 0
config dont_shoot 0
config chatting 0
config real_mode 1
config max_bots 4
config min_bots -1
config gorge_amount 0.4
config update_ladder_time 0.0
# max path revs, the lower the setting
# the better CPU performance in the
# path finding algorithm, but it takes
# longer to find paths.
config max_path_revs 100
# update vision revs, time to update what
# the bot can see, as it is quite cpu
# intensive you can change these values
# depending on cpu speed.
config max_update_vision_revs 150
config update_vision_time 0.07
# dont reserve bot slots
config reserve_bot_slots 0
# bots old chat chance
config chat_percent 15
# bots reply chat chance using megahal
config chat_reply_percent 20
# keep bots learning their chatting skills
config chat_dont_learn 0
# bots try to balance teams
config balance_teams 1
# dont build ip at NS start
config marine_auto_build 0

[Cheeseh]

putting the vision revs down by 10 isn't much of an improvement, I suggest put it down a lot, like to 100 instead of 150. And increase the time, it will make the bots a bit more slackier though.

What operating system are you using btw?

I use crappy old win 98 and my Athlon 2600 can handle a lan with 14 or more bots okay. I haven't tried on the net. I need some more input from tinman maybe, he sometimes runs a bot server with svencoop

[zodiac]

I am running NS3B3 on Windows 2003 Enterprise. I will try to drop to 100 and see what the effects are. Will there be anymore waypoint development for NS3 Combat? I know that I can create my own but I would much rather get the Waypoint devs from the source.

[Cheeseh]

checked the waypoints forum section?

[Sandman[SA]]

zodiac: you mentioned a pretty healthy system that by all meens, should be able to handle 20 players (bot or other wise) but you failed to say what the internet connection was.

Are you running this from home on a ADSL or Cable connection? Knowing your connection speed will help determin how many players your connection can actually support.

[Cheeseh]

[Sandman[SA]]

[Gruuunt]

If you really want to have more players, then you will need to install a rate management plugin, I use Admin Mod plugin ymboc_rateman.amx which dynamically adjusts the clients rates. Once it goes down below 2500 the dreaded lag will rear its ugly head, however with judicious use of the number of bots you can make a low uplink server appear to be bigger than it is...

In the Uk we only have a max of 256kb uplink 2Mb downlink on Standard ADSL and I can make my server 'appear' as a 15-man server with Lag only being apparrant, mainly to people with relativaly high ping rates [180+] suffering pretty badly.

There is also a converse situation which can arise, where a client has a very-low ping rate to the server, this sometimes has the effect of bleeding the server dry causing 'Massive' ping response to ALL players [500+].Therefore a solution for this would be to install a conta-plugin which 'evens' the ping rates to all clients. I know there are plugins that will do this, I just haven't got around to trying 1 myself as yet!

Best O'luck Zodiac

[zodiac]

Hey guys, thanks for all of your input on this. Want to address you questions or comments.

I am running an ADSL Line from my home for the NSB3 Server.

I realize that the gigabit ethernet will not have any effect on the speed of the connection coming out of the wall at 10Mb (and lower), but it sure does help on the Internal network as I mentioned for my connection to the server from my workstation. Also could not hurt to have the Gigabit plugged into the connection coming out of the wall to remove all doubt on max performance from that 10Mb line from the internet (no question of Netowrk latency this way).

I am running an Frame booster that DOES support Dual processors, I do not know how well this interfaces with the Half-Life/Natual Selection Application/Mod
but I figure more is always better in every case as you can tell from my setup.. I know that Half-Life/Natual Selection DOES NOT support dual processors but when I seen the FPS Booster plugin for AdminMod/Metamod that did support both processors, I went for it.

I will defintely keep these numbers in mind for max players vs my internet connection, it makes total sense. Now that I thinking about it the Router type might even make a difference. I am presently using a Linksys BEFSR11 Router that only has 512k memory in it as compared to maybe a Cisco Router product that might perform a bit better as those routers have alot more memory on them i.e. 32MB and 64MB also with a high end IOS operating system. I have had a Cisco Router that I purchased (Cisco 827) but I didn't install it because the person that sold it to me failed to mention it did not come with a Firewall option, so I got rid of it. The Linksys is a good router but I really do not think that is a high performance router at all. Still this probably will not relieve my Internet connection problem to support 20 players (384up, 1.5-6MB Down). My service provider just purchased a Fibre Channel backbone so we will see how long it will take them to implement this to offer it to the customers.

[Sandman[SA]]

We should rename this subject Half-Life servers 101, lol.

Lets get into details for knowing your internet connection and what you can do with it. Knowing exactly what your connection speed is, is very important. Lets start with the definitions. (please note uppercase and lowercase definitions)

k or kb = kilobit: 1,000 kilobits = 1 kilobyte
K or KB = kilobyte: 1,000 kilobytes = 1 megabit
m or mb = megabit: 1,000 megabits = 1 megabyte
M or MB = megabyte: 1,000 megabytes = 1 gigabit

(Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. These messurements are close enough to present a general idea of thier true values)

How do we translate this?

Ok, lets for an example say you have a 56k modem and you want to know what your transfer rate will be using it. Following the messurements as shown above, the 56kbps modem will transfer about 5.6 kilobytes of data per second. That's exactly 10% of what the modems rated speed is. Another example, say you have DSL or Cable connection rated at 384kbps upload. You would actually be sending 38.4 kilobytes per second. Again, notice the modems actual speed is only 10% of what it's rated for.

Now that you know how fast your internet connection speed is, how many players can it support if you was to host a half-life server? The answer is very simple. Take your figured actual internet connection speed and devide it by 4 and you will have your answer. Now by default, each user connecting to your server will pull down 4 kilobytes per second. Using 56kbps upload, you could only support 1 player. Using 384kbps upload, you could support nearly 10 players.

(note: 56kbps modems only have a 28.8kbps upload limit and there-for can not actually support another player. True 56k ISDN connections are the same speed both ways and could support 1 player)

But all is not lost. Say you do have a 384kbps upload connection hosting a 10 player server but need room for 2 more players? This can be done by tweeking your servers sv_minrate and sv_maxrate settings. By default, sv_maxrate is set to 10,000. This is fine for a T1 line or faster but a sv_maxrate setting at something like 2000 is much better suited to the adverage DSL or Cable host. This will increase lantency some-what to all players by redusing how many bits per second that each player in the server can pull down but will allow you to keep lantency with-in reason yet still have room for a few more players.

[zodiac]

You are THE Man Sandman!!