Svencoop 4.8 & rcbots crashing, bad crash problem just after adding bots Options

[madmax2]

Hey Cheeseh, I'm sure this isn't what you want to hear...

I just installed sc4.8 & the bots yesterday, and there is a serious crash problem now. I PMed w00tguy123 about it, and he confirms he is having the crash problem too, on the maps I list below, plus others...

Here is an edited part of my PM to him:

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I can verify there is a crash problem with sc4.8 and rcbot. The game crashes to the desktop with a repeating sound loop and the following windows dialog...

CODE

The instruction at "0x0cd93a89" referenced memory at "0x000000cc". The memory could not be "read".

Click on OK to terminate the program.

Then I click OK and the PC works normally afterwards....

So far, I get 2 memory locations for the instruction location, [edit] I get this one more now for some reason?... It's very consistant...

CODE

The instruction at "0x0ce13a89" referenced memory at "0x000000cc". The memory could not be "read".

I'm on winXPsp3.. I'm fully updated on steam as of yesterday...

So far I've checked 7 maps, multiple times, and get the crash very soon after adding the first bot, usually within seconds of adding a bot. Crashes on:

murks
crystal 1 & 2
intruder
activist2
activist3

I went all the way through activist 1, without a problem. I even played some. Then after a map change to activist2, it crashed within seconds of a bot spawning. I reloaded activist2 and it happened again...

Before I installed sc4.8, I moved my sc4.7 install to another location. I can quickly switch back to sc4.7, and the bots work perfectly on the same maps... This is the way I normally upgrade my HL mods with rcbot, by editing the nessesary files (liblist.gam, server.cfg, etc...) and copying the addons (metamod) folder over to the new mod version, so i'm sure it's not an install error on my part...
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It is not an intermitant crash on most maps I've checked, so far... I did some further investigation this morning with a surprizing result. Before I get into that, I want to add that crystal is a good map to see the crash on , cause it is always within a second or 2 of spawning the first bot (intruder might be the same). In murks & crystal2, the bots sometimes can go a few steps, before the crash.

Okay, here are the things I tried this morning. I have been testing this mostly with the latest rcbot dll (rcbot_mm_sc47_3.7z) and metamod-p-1.21p37. So first I tried the original rcbot sc4.7 dll (RCBot1_SC47_release_dll.zip), no change, same crash. Next I switched back to metamod-p-1.19p32, again no change.

So, since i had the rcbot sc4.6 dll handy (rcbot_mm_SC46_debug.zip), I thought I might as well try that too, and to my surprize the crashing seemed to stop, for a while!!!

I was able to play crystal past the underwater part, up to the first set of "problem" ceiling mini-turrets, without any crashes, 10+ minutes, then I ended the test. After a short test on crystal2 without a crash, I loaded intruder. I played intruder past the big lift room, past one of the side routes where a bot press a console button to open a new area/door. We back track to the main path, where I got shot up with 1% health left, so I retreated to the side route, a bot was coming towards me, I quickly spun the mouse wheel to select medkit at the same time bringing up the menu to call medic.. It was about there I got the same crash with the rcbot 4.6 debug dll... This all took about 10 minutes too.

But I should add, this needs more testing (rcbot 4.6 dll with sc4.8), it may be a very intermitant crash with the rcbot 4.6 dll. This could of been the same very very intermitant crash I was getting on sc4.7 with the sc4.7 dll's? I didn't report it because it was so very intermitant, it could take you days just to duplicate the crash... And most of the time I was waypointing at the same time, so i just shrugged it off as unimportant...

I will try a couple more tests today, with the rcbot 4.6 dll & sc4.8 maps, to see if the crash on intruder was just one of those freak intermitant crashes I was getting before? I'm not sure if that would help you find the problem or not? I was just thinking if the rcbot 4.6 dll is much more stable than the rcbot 4.7 dll's in sc4.8, then you could look at the code change's you made back then (4.6 to 4.7 rcbot), and it might help you pinpoint the problem?

I want to do some rcbot2/dods stuff today, so i'll try more testing on SC later today, if time allows... I just wanted to get this bug reported, so others can give feedback too...

Also, w00tguy123 thought the crash might possibly be related to entity changes made in sc4.8, but he wasn't sure about that?

max

[madmax2]

I tried the new grapple upd2, it works great now . After the adjustments you made, the grapple-point definately needs to be right on the slime, but they also see it much much better.

I tried your rcw, and at the first grapple area, you got them swinging across perfect, just like tarzan .

They can do the other 2 areas perfect too. And once they get across, they don't seem so eager to keep shooting at the GP. I think thats it, the grapple works great now...

When I get back from the beach, i'll definately be wpt'n some grapple points...

Any other ideas you want to put into the bots?

[Cheeseh]

I tried the new grapple upd2, it works great now . After the adjustments you made, the grapple-point
definately needs to be right on the slime, but they also see it much much better.

I tried your rcw, and at the first grapple area, you got them swinging across perfect, just like tarzan .

They can do the other 2 areas perfect too. And once they get across, they don't seem so eager to keep
shooting at the GP. I think thats it, the grapple works great now...

When I get back from the beach, i'll definately be wpt'n some grapple points...

Any other ideas you want to put into the bots?

well i've gone back to svencoop for a bit cos I've added teleport detection now, i.e. at teleport waypoints, bots would always usually think theres a teleport there but sometimes they are not or are inactive. So bots will only go thorugh teleport waypoints if there's an active teleporter there.

I think i'll have to make bots wait for other bots at teleport waypoints too

also bots can use the flash light now

[madmax2]

well i've gone back to svencoop for a bit cos I've added teleport detection now, i.e. at teleport waypoints, bots would always usually think theres a teleport there but sometimes they are not or are inactive. So bots will only go thorugh teleport waypoints if there's an active teleporter there.

I think i'll have to make bots wait for other bots at teleport waypoints too

also bots can use the flash light now

Yeah, all of it sounds good, teleport detection, nice ... I'm curious how the flashlight works, bots can detect the low light in a room somehow?


w00tguy123 said:

Is there anything that could be done to improve bots using ladders? The majority of the time they get stuck at the bottom and never move, and it only takes one bot to stop map progression by getting stuck at the bottom forever. It seems like they get stuck only if their feet are touching something. If they aren't standing on a player or the ground they usually go up just fine.

Thats a good observation. If they can jump onto the ladder w/o bouncing off, they usually have no problems... Yeah, ladders can be difficult to wpt, and when bots stick at the bottom, it seems to happen most when bots fall directly on the bottom ladder wpt. I try to minimize this, with non-standard wpt configurations at some ladders... It seems not all ladders are the same...

On ladders, what i do, is start first with the standard 3 wpt config at the bottom, they often need a jump wpt with the newer bots:

Either N--N--L or N--J--L

Often times i use a "stay close to" at the first normal wpt, it helps a lot to slow the bots down, at most all ladders, then they take a running jump onto the ladder:

SCT--J--L

Also, I have found this often works much better at the bottom, with a single ladder wpt at the top:

N--J--N or SCT--J--N <--- no ladder tag on bottom of ladder

Sometimes i've had to use this in tight areas where the ladder seems very sticky, or at some vent ladders it has worked well where bots are crouching up a short ladder inside a vent:

N--N--J at bottom, to a ladder wpt at the top (or crouched-ladder wpt)...

What I have seen, is when more than one bot gets to the bottom of the ladder at the same time, & the second touches the heels of the first bot going up the ladder, & the second bot falls directly on the bottom ladder wpt, he will often be stuck there a while. The N--N--J seems to help with this in tight areas. btw, I never make the ladders paths at the bottom one-way, they are two-way so bots can back up & take another run at it. Forcing bots onto the ladder won't help, it makes jams worst.

Also, i prefer a setting of "config update_ladder_time 0.2", it looks a bit sloppy when they climb or must go down ladders, but i don't think they get stuck as often, they wiggle free better...

[w00tguy123]

On ladders, what i do, is start first with the standard 3 wpt config at the bottom, they often need a jump wpt with the newer bots:

Either N--N--L or N--J--L

Adding a jump waypoint helped a lot. I'll be doing that for every ladder now.

I've just come across a problem with the grapple waypoints. If they fail to get to the grapple waypoint and fall down somewhere, they'll keep trying to grapple even if they're nowhere near the waypoint that they're supposed to start from. That behavior can potentially be helpful, but not if they don't have a direct line of sight to the grapple point anymore. I keep seeing them firing their grapples into walls endlessly until I crowbar them out of their spots. Having them give up after 10 seconds of no progress might work.

[madmax2]

I've just come across a problem with the grapple waypoints. If they fail to get to the grapple waypoint and fall down somewhere, they'll keep trying to grapple even if they're nowhere near the waypoint that they're supposed to start from. That behavior can potentially be helpful, but not if they don't have a direct line of sight to the grapple point anymore. I keep seeing them firing their grapples into walls endlessly until I crowbar them out of their spots. Having them give up after 10 seconds of no progress might work.

Yeah, i can confirm this can happen when there is no killzone. I tried it on another map, and in this case when they miss the landing zone above, and fall back down to a lower level, it can happen sometimes. With other weapons, i've seen bots sometimes try to shoot thru corners (see thru corners?), this may not be the same, but it reminded me of that.

It was funny, another bot got in the way, and he grappled to that bot, which dragged him around the room (piggy back), up to where the human tower wpts were, it jumped across, but got stuck/wedged on the wall, then the bot suicided, and the barnicle gun bot fell down again. It resumed fireing the grapple, but it looked like this time it was firing at the grapple wpt, not the grapple point? The other bot did drag it thru the wpt that is connected to the grapple wpt.

So it does seem there needs to be some kind of reset? Maybe timed, or a counter of x fire attempts, then the bot changes to navigation & looks for the closest wpt?

Another time, I got the bot to grapple to me in noclip mode, pulled him up to the target area, then he quit firing and worked normally...

[edit] I moved the grapple wpt slightly closer to the grapple point, from the platform there to just inside the opening. I haven't seen the bots miss the landing zone since . If they hit the wall there now, they keep grappling until they are sucked into the opening/hole there. So it's no problem now, in this case. Careful placement of the grapple wpt may eliminate the falling down, but maybe not in all situations ?

If a player gets in the way, they don't let go of a player. There are maps where that could be useful, such as jumpers. I'm not sure how that could be implemented though, it might be better to just let players grapple to bots?