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VSG
post Apr 9 2020, 10:25 PM
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So this is the new map created by @Arvi, a quite standard map that has 2 floors featuring big indoor areas with many rooms, vents and ladders communicating some places, a small outdoor area with a couple of planks giving passage to the inside, and...a secret teleporter.

I'm not sure this one could very "waypointable" though, because of those said vents and teleporter. Worse yet, some of the doors have to be opened manually, and some of the windows are filled with glass, too...

GameBanana - Arvi's map

Greetings @madmax2.
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madmax2
post Apr 20 2020, 12:25 AM
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I looked at the map and so long as those doors are not a problem, it should be easy to make a waypoint. I'll test those doors first and let you know how it's going... I've been working on shattered waypoint for Svencoop, it should be done soon and I can start this... wink.gif
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VSG
post Apr 21 2020, 10:35 AM
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QUOTE(madmax2 @ Apr 20 2020, 01:25 AM) *

I looked at the map and so long as those doors are not a problem, it should be easy to make a waypoint. I'll test those doors first and let you know how it's going... I've been working on shattered waypoint for Svencoop, it should be done soon and I can start this... wink.gif


No hurries, madmax2, thanks. I noticed this door thing on another map we rotate, dm_value, but here it was not a big issue since there are just 2 doors on this huge map and once opened by another player, they stayed opened.

Maybe routes that go through doors can be forgotten entirely... laugh.gif
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madmax2
post May 1 2020, 04:03 AM
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I began building a waypoint for this map. Yeah, the bots don't recognize the doors, they just run into them. But I think I can waypoint most of the map. I may need to avoid waypointing rooms where bots may get trapped behind a door. One of the ceiling vents to a closet room could trap bots...

Oh, maybe you could pm or tell me where the secret teleporter is located? I forgot to look for it today. I was noclipping through the map a week ago, but didn't notice it... I'll probably find it noclipping... wink.gif

Another thing I forgot to check was to make sure no spawn points are behind doors with no way out. I guess thats not a big deal, cause bots spawning in the room will kill each other until a player opens the door... laugh.gif wacko.gif

[edit] I found the teleporter. it may be to difficult for bots to use it?... Think i'll skip that for now. The waypoint is nearly complete, release soon...
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VSG
post May 2 2020, 08:33 PM
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Sure! The teleporter is a small rotating platform which can be found: staying a while waiting on the wood plank outside (the one where you can fall to death), and looking down to catch it while itīs moving.

Itīs a bit funny because it appears when loading a local server with 16 player limit, and does not appear when the player limit is 32? huh.gif perhaps you had that same issue too..

Yeah I thought some parts of the map could be a mess for bots spawning, as the places you mention, but if humans open the doors that later donīt close automatically, itīs less a concern. If the doors close after a set time, better to discard it IMO.

Also I was wondering if it would work at all when using teamplay gamemode? the one we have currently on our server. (and probably the only one TDM server with vanilla maps & rcbot2 at the moment!)

Cheers.

Edit - Oh didnīt see the last part, yeah probably impossible to use this kind of teleporter for bots, just telling where it is as pure info.
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madmax2
post May 4 2020, 06:39 PM
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Hey VSG,

Try this out smile.gif ... Bots can't open doors but can go through doors that have been left open by players. Bots can use all ladders except one that I waypointed around, the one next to a ceiling vent, that drops down to a closed door room (I may be able to add it in later?), see the readme.txt.

Had a bot get into the teleport room once, by pure luck, added a fix for that, see the readme.

I'm not all that familiar with this game. Do you know if there is a way to remove/disable the gravity gun. I mainly just want this for waypointing reasons. Bots go crazy with it lol...

Oh, and I couldn't find the command to view spawn points, I think for dods it's map_showspawnpoints. Any idea?

Also, i've seen bots vanish or teleport while waypointing, wasn't sure if this was a bug with the map, RCbot2, or just part of the game. It might also have something to do with changing waypoints while bots are active? Or only happens on listen server? It seemed bots were leaving game, but they were still on player list? It may only happen when waypoints are on, as I noticed diminishing bots over time. I would turn off waypoints and they might come back over time, sometimes? Kinda weird?

So please check for vanishing bots on normal operation. Keep in mind waypointing sessions are fairly long, it may not show up in a 20 minute round. There are a lot of errors in the console, but I didn't investigate that to close. Maybe it won't happen under normal operation...?

======================================================================
To Global Moderator/Admin: Just been noticing an unusually high number of guests on the site the last few days. Mainly viewing this topic:

http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index....c=2214&st=0

At times over 900 guests in that topic at once, and I've seen it before in that topic. Total views of that topic are now over 700000 !! I didn't know if it was a DOS attack or maybe some search engine bot keying off something in that topic? It goes up & down but seems to go on for a day or more. It might be nothing, but thought I'd mention it... unsure.gif

======================================================================

[Edit 5-20-20] I'll leave this rcw posted for now, but get the latest updated one here:
http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index....ost&p=15183


Attached File(s)
Attached File  dm_office_construct_rcw.zip ( 4.06k ) Number of downloads: 7
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Arvi
post May 6 2020, 07:02 PM
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Hi! Thank you madmax2 for making the waypoints.
I think it is not possible to disable the gravity gun by default for the bots. Also I realized that the doors could have been made in a better way for the bots, like in css hostage maps. When a player would have touched the door it would have opened, but the doors on my map do not have this option enabled unforunately.

I managed to create an image of some sort to demonstrate where the info_player_start:s are located, if you still need it.
They are the green dots and the one blue one means that it is located on the second floor in the map. These are only the normal player starts (free for all).
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madmax2
post May 7 2020, 04:48 PM
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Hi Arvi,

Thank-you for the information and the map. The only spawn issue for bots is the room in upper right corner of the image. If the door has been opened, bots should be able to escape the room, otherwise they will suicide out the window. There is a teleport waypoint I could use, that allows bots to pass through solid objects, but it is kind of a cheat and might annoy players? So I thought I would only use it where bots might get trapped, like the secret room, or the storage closet...

Hmm, just had an idea, instead of suicide out the window in that room, I could have bots teleport to the end of the platform just outside the window. But that is cheating, because it doesn't seem possible for players to make the jump from the window. I tried, I couldn't do it. Should you ever decide to make a new version of the map, you could just remove the doors, I think that would be ok.

Anyways, Enjoy the waypoint... smile.gif
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VSG
post May 7 2020, 09:56 PM
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Hey madmax2, I already tested your waypoint locally, more than 20 minutes sessions, teamplay with 7 bots.

The issues about bots suddenly vanishing and quickly teleporting to a near point, happen as well with other maps and waypoints made by experienced hl2dm creators who put a lot of care on them so I wouldnīt worry, yeah, itīs odd and I donīt have a clue what could be causing it? Lots of console errors unfortunately are common for hl2 dm too...however they mean very little gameplay wise (same as, say, Gmod).

Bots falling to their death sometimes (not too often) also not an issue, Iīve seen it on other maps we rotate and even think it makes it a bit more realistic laugh.gif

The bots also donīt get trapped on a room frequently enough to make it annoying. Your solution is fine!

Sorry that I donīt know either which command is used to view spawn points...

I like the waypoint smile.gif , only thing so far that could be changed? same-team bots queue on all ladders to climb, and at times there could be 3 of them just waiting while the first one does not want to climb, they get stuck there...is there a way to change it? I remember this same behaviour going on with the "steamlab" stock map, although itīs just one ladder on the whole map...

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madmax2
post May 8 2020, 10:05 PM
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QUOTE
I like the waypoint smile.gif , only thing so far that could be changed? same-team bots queue on all ladders to climb, and at times there could be 3 of them just waiting while the first one does not want to climb, they get stuck there...is there a way to change it? I remember this same behaviour going on with the "steamlab" stock map, although itīs just one ladder on the whole map...

I'll try it on team play and check it out. Perhaps bots just need to get up the ladders better? I'm glad you like the waypoint... smile.gif
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madmax2
post May 20 2020, 11:59 PM
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I've updated the rcw to fix some problems. smile.gif

---------------------------------------------------------
* Release 2 Changes (partial list, there were many tweaks)
---------------------------------------------------------

* Bots can now teleport to the platform outside spawn room with large table, if the door is closed.

* At other end of hallway near ladder, found bots spawning inside the small supply room there, so they can teleport out of that room, too. Basically, both teleport wpts are just moving the bots spawn locations so they aren't trapped behind closed doors...

* More movement wpts/options for bots. A lot of work was done at upper office area.

* For Teamplay:
Reworked the 3 ladders (4th ladder still not waypointed), mainly because bots would stick at bottom of ladders & pile up, and not climb the ladders. Also, props near ladders were causing these problems. These problems may still happen some, but I think the bots are doing better on the ladders. They should untangle themselves quicker if they do bunch up at a ladder.

There is really no avoiding the bots stopping at the bottom of ladders, because they won't climb when they see an enemy and are shooting at them. Also in HL2dm teamplay, when 2 or more bots arrive at a ladder at the same time, bots tend to stick to each other, sorta holding on to the first bot, which will have trouble climbing the ladder. It's even more of a problem when the waypoint is flagged ladder, because all the bots will be very persistent at reaching the bottom ladder waypoint. So to reduce this persistence and the problem at ladders, the bottom ladder wpts, are no longer flagged as ladder. I had to move the top ladder wpt so the path is no longer vertical, its angled to help the bots face or pull themselves up the ladder. All 3 ladders are done differently, in a non-standard way, as each is a special case. I also added side waypoints at the bottom, and increased radius, to loosen it up at the bottom of the ladders. Bots climb nearly as well as a standard ladder configuration, but if they can't get up the ladder for some reason, they are far better at letting go at the bottom and moving on to a different wpt.

This problem at ladders and team rcbots sticking to each other does not exist in DoD:s or TF2, because the same team bots in those games are NOT solid, and just pass through each other. Therefore, in those games, they don't interfere or collide at the ladders. Unfortunately this is not the case with rcbots in HL2dm teamplay mode. For pure HL2dm, its not an issue, bots just kill anyone...

Also, a weird issue that doesn't happen in DoD:s or TF2, is that backwards teleporting bots seem to be doing. I think it happens when they are having trouble reaching a waypoint, or hung up on props. It happens frequently at the hallway ladder. Bots will sometimes teleport to the bottom of the ladder after reaching the top, even from inside the vent. I believe this teleporting is causing bots to occasionally get stuck inside world spawn. I've even seen 2 bots appear to be merged together, stuck, unable to move until one of them is killed! It can happen anywhere, not just at a ladder.

I don't think the teleport waypoints I've added is related, or the cause of this issue. I saw it happening on some stock maps, but did not test that long enough to see any bots stuck in world spawn. Fortunately, getting stuck in world spawn doesn't happen to often, so a 20 minute round may be safe? If you see a bot shooting at the ground or a wall repeatedly, it may be shooting at a bot in world spawn.

[Edit] Known issues:
1. Bots occasionally hang at top of ladder outside the upper office, not a huge problem, i'll try to fix it if & when I update the rcw?

2. Bots occasionally get stuck behind wood pallet leaning on wall in the small supply room near hallway ladder. If you knock pallet off wall it should not happen. I think bots may be spawning inside it sometimes? The extra wpts I put there seemed to help, but did not fully resolve the issue...


Attached File(s)
Attached File  dm_office_construct_rcw2.zip ( 5.39k ) Number of downloads: 6
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VSG
post May 29 2020, 12:20 PM
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Fantastic reworking @madmax2, after testing the waypoints are a lot more clever now! smile.gif

Issues with ladders are less frequent now, yeah, I think some of the teamplay problems are evident compared with later Valve mp games... this one didn't have a careful development as later games, such as DoD:S and TF2, actually known glitches were never officially fixed. The solid bots might be a result?

And also the fact that TDM was never as popular as the pure DM, I have seen some map remakes like dm_crossfire not even thinking about teamplay spawns, so it's impossible to have the rcbots working on TDM on several "competitive" (back in the day) maps. Fortunately not the case with stock maps.

Did not see any bots stuck in world spawn either so far, abundancy of props are troublesome in general for bots on all maps, specially in closed small areas, I think it's going to be ok anyway, loved the new movement options! The bots are not using vents and this makes them get stuck much less.

Anyway I've been a bit inactive last week (ending of lockdown here, breathing some fresh air!) and today I added the map to the server with the waypoints, will check if any issue arises after some time, by listening players reports. We have all stock maps, plus 4 custom (now 5).

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And will be giving a little help again to the rcbot2 development cause!
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