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> dod_tunisia, Nice bomb-defuse map
madmax2
post Apr 10 2015, 11:22 PM
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Here is a new waypoint for dod_tunisia, included with the Camp2 map pack. My first bomb/defuse rcw... Hope you like it... smile.gif

I included 2 rcws for this map, one for rcbot2 0.8/0.9 & newer (the default) and one for rcbot2 0.76 (0.7). The rcw's were built & tested on rcbot2 0.76, 0.85, and 0.96.

The rcw works good, allies can plant all bombs, but there is one bomb the axis won't defuse! The 3rd bomb at the ammo dump. The first 2 bombs there are dedected captures by rcbot, but the 3rd is not, so the capture area doesn't seem centered between all 3 bombs? The allies originally would not plant the 3rd crate bomb, so I used a tagged capture and moved it closer to it and put a bombtoopen wpt on it. Allies bomb all 3 crates fairly fast now, just the axis won't or can't get to the 3rd crate in time. It probably does not matter, as by that time the allies are trying to plant the other bombs, and it is difficult for a player to get to that 3rd crate, too... There is some other odd bot behavior at these crates, but it doesn't effect gameplay to much, and it will stop once the ammo dump is captured.

With even teams, I think it plays best from axis side, more fun. You may want to unbalance the teams for a greater challenge when playing allied side?

There are several versions of the map, I believe I got my copy from dodmap here:
http://www.dodmap.com/index.php?option=com...info&id=657

This looks to be the correct map here:
http://www.sunlitgames.net/index.php?modul...d=493&cid=2

Don't get it from gamebanana, they look like older versions...

I believe this is the last of the CAMP maps to be waypointed... smile.gif

[Edit 5-18-15] [Release2] Updated .8x/.9x rcw

Since the first release, I added many cover & movement wpts, more defend positions. A number of fixes & adjustments. Axis bots can defend better with this release, so playing either side singleplayer can be fun. I recommend start with 8x8 and try 2 mg's per team. I like playing the radio tower area the most, attacking or defending. Playing axis side, I try to defend the ammo dump for the first 2 bomb plants. After that, I fall back and defend the next 2 points, and let the bots fight over the 3rd crate at the ammo dump. I try to keep the radio tower the last point to defend.

Download latest (Release2):
http://rcbot.bots-united.com/uploads/madma...unisia_rcw2.zip

Have fun...
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Emotional
post Apr 12 2015, 04:15 PM
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Hello Max! smile.gif Glad to see you here again! I thing, you stopped make wpts for DoD:S, and I'm very glad, that you do this again.
I played 6 round for Axis and 6 - for Allies. Nice wpts. Especially liked, that axis bots used underground ways smile.gif
But I noted some strangeness - when I play for allies, axis have nice defence, machineguns makes mining flags very hard, last points I can explode only after at least 2-minute siege, or if I'm being lucky. When I played for axis, allies organize WILD RUSH and crashed all axis defence so fast, I never see no one waypoint, where rush something like this ohmy.gif ohmy.gif I so fast lost all my points. The only solution - take position in window with k-98 with sniper scope and shooting allies, when they placed bomb, but it does not always saves. I got the impression, that if I not take any side, teams will be play better blink.gif
And I finds some bugs:

Bots oftenly standing at this point, sometimes - 1,5-2 minutes. It very prevents defend 3rd point, especially when at the same time stand 6-7 bots
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Allies bots, sometimes, "cling" to the corner, if you understand me, and jumps. I screenshoted that corner (sorry, bot run from scope, a second before the screenshot)

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QUOTE
I believe this is the last of the CAMP maps to be waypointed.



Ooooaaaah.. Max, can I have little hope, that you waypointed maps from my list? ( http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index....ost&p=11947 ) sad.gif
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madmax2
post Apr 14 2015, 03:48 AM
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Hi Emotional, Thanks for the feedback...

QUOTE
Bots oftenly standing at this point, sometimes - 1,5-2 minutes. It very prevents defend 3rd point, especially when at the same time stand 6-7 bots

I'm not sure what causes so many axis bots to collect at that one point, but many bots seem to go there first then move to the other defend wpts for this area. There are 2 more defend wpts plus a mg & sniper wpt they could choose when leaving their spawn area, but they prefer that one the most. I think this mostly happens when the other 2 areas have been captured by the allies, so this reduces the number of defend, mg, & sniper wpts they can choose. I think this is more of an issue in the newer rcbot2 versions, I don't think it was happening nearly as much with 0.76 or 0.85?

Which rcbot2 version are you using & how many bots per team (axis team)?

QUOTE
Allies bots, sometimes, "cling" to the corner, if you understand me, and jumps. I screenshoted that corner (sorry, bot run from scope, a second before the screenshot)

If that is the corner in the same area of first 2 screenshots, bots are using a cover_reload wpt there, so allies can duck behind that low wall, or axis can move to corner too, it's not team specific. I think the jumping & crouching there is a result of the new crouching behavior, they don't do that there on older rcbot2 versions!

When I get some time, I'll re-check this area, see if there is anything I can do. You could delete the cover_reload wpt where they are "clinging" and see if that works better for you?

QUOTE
Ooooaaaah.. Max, can I have little hope, that you waypointed maps from my list?

I haven't stopped waypointing, just my time to do it is limited now. You know, that real life thing... wink.gif

As for the "rush" behavior, it is an attack/defend map, so perhaps there is some difference in the AI for this game type? What I noticed, when allies plant a bomb, most axis bots will abandon thier defensive positions and rush to diffuse that bomb. There are a few defend wpts available to the allies, but most are for axis bots. Allied bots don't seem to interested in defend wpts on this map, since they are attacking the whole time...
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madmax2
post Apr 14 2015, 06:21 PM
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QUOTE
Bots oftenly standing at this point, sometimes - 1,5-2 minutes. It very prevents defend 3rd point, especially when at the same time stand 6-7 bots

I'm not sure what causes so many axis bots to collect at that one point, but many bots seem to go there first then move to the other defend wpts for this area. There are 2 more defend wpts plus a mg & sniper wpt they could choose when leaving their spawn area, but they prefer that one the most. I think this mostly happens when the other 2 areas have been captured by the allies, so this reduces the number of defend, mg, & sniper wpts they can choose. I think this is more of an issue in the newer rcbot2 versions, I don't think it was happening nearly as much with 0.76 or 0.85?

Which rcbot2 version are you using & how many bots per team (axis team)?


I ran a few play tests on .85 & .96 last night. They do collect there with both versions, but I never saw more than 3 bots on that wpt at one time, and not for long. 0.96 bots seem to hang in the general area longer (near tank), taking cover, etc. This is mostly occuring after the 1st two areas have been captured by the allies. So, I think you may be using more bots? I was testing with 7vs7 (6axis + myself).

For larger number of bots, I could try adding 1 or 2 more defend wpts near radio tower, but this may siphon more axis bots here at the beginning of the match, making the ammo dump defense even weaker? So, I may need to add more defend wpts there too? I could also try removing that defend wpt or an extra cover_reload wpt next to it?

I'd like to know how many bots you were using and which rcbot version, thanks... smile.gif
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Emotional
post Apr 15 2015, 04:56 AM
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QUOTE
Which rcbot2 version are you using & how many bots per team (axis team)?

0.85, 16x16 teams
QUOTE
I haven't stopped waypointing, just my time to do it is limited now. You know, that real life thing...

Oooooo yeah, I'm understand.. smile.gif
QUOTE
What I noticed, when allies plant a bomb, most axis bots will abandon thier defensive positions and rush to diffuse that bomb.

I see it only in 3rd point. When mining 1st point, ~60% axis bot defends 2 and 3 point, and those 3-4 axis bots, who runs on 1st point for defuse kill very quickly. sad.gif
QUOTE
For larger number of bots, I could try adding 1 or 2 more defend wpts near radio tower, but this may siphon more axis bots here at the beginning of the match, making the ammo dump defense even weaker? So, I may need to add more defend wpts there too? I could also try removing that defend wpt or an extra cover_reload wpt next to it?

Hmm, I think, balance between sides can be detected only by the testing. Now, I again plays 3 rounds for axis and 3 for allies - for allies plays easy, in general. Notice very intensity gameplay. I think, for balance sides, needs just create hard defence for 3 point - because allies crushed her easy. Maybe it make some balance unsure.gif


Also, allies bots kill with Thompson me now, when I was there
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while he was there:
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marksmanskill blink.gif wacko.gif

find 1 bug else: after blasting 1 from 3 bomb on first point, and mining 2 bomb, axis bots try to defuse place, when miming first bomb.
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madmax2
post Apr 16 2015, 04:31 AM
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QUOTE
find 1 bug else: after blasting 1 from 3 bomb on first point, and mining 2 bomb, axis bots try to defuse place, when miming first bomb

I saw that too, allies will also go there when planting bombs, it is strange unsure.gif . I'll check it again, but I don't think I can fix with the waypoint? All rcbot versions tested do it. I've tried to fix it with and without wpts near there, but it makes no difference? This is the odd behavior I mention in first post. I'll try to fix again after I add a few more defend wpts...

It may be the position of the capture wpt? I had to move it closer to the 3rd bomb crate to get allied bots to plant on 3rd crate, otherwise they would not plant 3rd crate bomb. The map capture area does not seem to be centered between all 3 crates, the 3rd crate is not within the map capture area!

QUOTE
Also, allies bots kill with Thompson me now, when I was there

while he was there:

Wow, that's some long lucky shot... laugh.gif
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Emotional
post Apr 17 2015, 05:27 PM
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QUOTE
Я видел тоже, так союзники туда при посадке бомбы, странно

I think, it happens, because in RCBot code defuse function "attached" only one defuse place in one point smile.gif But I don't know, how to fix it unsure.gif
QUOTE
The map capture area does not seem to be centered between all 3 crates, the 3rd crate is not within the map capture area!

Hmmm.. sorry, but I don't know sad.gif
QUOTE
Wow, that's some long lucky shot...

It is not luck shot smile.gif Several times, sniper and machinegunner kills me throught the wall and from a long distance. It's map bug, like a nonexistent wall for bots on dod_aura (if you played oftenly on aura, you understand me smile.gif ). But it is trifle smile.gif
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madmax2
post Apr 18 2015, 04:49 AM
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QUOTE
I think, it happens, because in RCBot code defuse function "attached" only one defuse place in one point

Yes, I agree...

Today I did more testing and attempted to change the waypoints at the first bomb/capture point, but I can't fix it with the waypoint (axis unable to defuse 3rd crate). Most testing was done on rcb.96, but was also checked on rcb.85. Here are some things I tried and what I discovered:

1. bots need at least one capture wpt in the area to bomb/defuse the first 2 crate-bombs, or they ignor all 3 crates/bombs. If I put 1 capture wpt on the 3rd crate, bots will bomb/defuse the first 2 crates but will NOT bomb/defuse the 3rd crate!

2. the only way to get bots to bomb 3rd crate is to place a bombtoopen wpt there & run a path thru the crate to another wpt. this is how I got allied bots to bomb it. I suspect this is why axis bots won't defuse it, they confuse the capture wpt & the bombtoopen wpt? maybe if they had more time before they are killed they would go to it to defuse, but I never see them try?

3. i tried a single capture wpt at each crate, i also tried a single capture wpt centered between the 3 crates, and I tried capture wpts on all 3 crates at the same time, results were the same each time. bots only bomb/defuse first 2 crates, and ignore 3rd crate.

4. the first 2 crates are detected capture areas, the 3rd crate is not a detected capture by rcbot. I think this is the main problem here, the bots can't detect the bomb plants at the 3rd crate properly, for axis to defuse there. axis bots think the bomb is at the 1st crate when it is actually at the 3rd crate.

I can make allied bots plant bombs faster here, and axis still won't defuse 3rd crate bomb, so it helps allied bots more than axis bots. I'm not sure if I will make any changes at the ammo dump bomb area, i'm still testing it...?

I think bots don't double/triple on wpts as much with rcb.96 as compared to rcb.85. Also, 16x16 bots may be to many for this map & rcw, there just are not enough defensive wpts for bots to go to, especially when down to one capture point. Their options are reduced...

However, you can try the rcw changes I did yesterday. I added a number of defend wpts, mostly for the 3rd point (radio tower). It spreads the bots out better, they still double & triple sometimes, but they move about more when this is the last point to be captured. I also removed the path over that low wall, they may of been hanging up there sometimes... The 3rd point has the most defend wpts... I may change or not keep all these defend wpts, i'm still tweaking it... wink.gif

dod_tunisia_rcw_test.zip
Removed Link - See first post for latest rcw's
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Emotional
post Apr 20 2015, 11:35 AM
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Now I tested your new wpt smile.gif nice smile.gif
1) Axis bots begans to defuse 1 and 2 point oftenly. It takes some time for the holding 3 point.
2) Axis bots better defend 3rd point. Problem with more bots in one place, almost disappeared.
3) Axis bots can organize in some cases nice defend system in 1st point. Allies bots one time crush 1 point 3:50 biggrin.gif
4) I see bug, similar what I see on dod_colmar: bots, try to defuse, can take weapons from ground. But on dod_colmar, bots take weapons only their class (allies support can take only stg-44). Here I see, than allies assault take mg-42 and killed 4 axis bots ohmy.gif I think, allies bots, for unknown reason, too try a defuse (I don't know other reasons, for the bot can take weapons from the ground, as I know, change weapon function not available) ohmy.gif
5) Allies bots have become more active, it pleases smile.gif
6) In general, gameplay became more dynamic and interesting, althought, defend 3 point, represents a korean random, lol: axis bots can create strong defence, but can run all over the map, when allies rushed 3rd point.
Thanks for great work.
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madmax2
post Apr 25 2015, 05:08 AM
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Been out of town a few days, I just got back...

Thanks, glad you like it... Another update soon...

lol, bots are in a panic at that 3rd point... biggrin.gif
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post Apr 26 2015, 05:46 AM
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I'm waiting wink.gif
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madmax2
post Apr 26 2015, 08:37 AM
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Try this one, I made a number of changes, more cover & movement options. A couple defend changes, one was in a blind area with the last rcw, so I moved it. I tried to make 2 ladders work better. Still adjusting some things. I think axis are doing better? wink.gif

dod_tunisia_rcw_test2.zip
Removed Link - See first post for latest rcw's
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post Apr 28 2015, 11:46 AM
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I tested your last wpt. It's great! Now sides are really balanced! I really enjoyed gameplay now. Thanks for your great work, Max.
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madmax2
post May 18 2015, 08:37 PM
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Final update, get it from first post...

There has been a few tweaks since the last test rcw. I fixed the breakable wood door with 2 breakable wpts so bots shouldn't try to run thru it without breaking it now, it really wasn't a big problem with one breakable. I moved a defend wpt slightly, otherwise defensive positions are the same. There are some new movement/cover options, and fixes for sticking bots.

I tweaked the ladders a bit, the underground ladder works better, at least bots get off at the top better. Bots appear to stick at the bottom of the ladders sometimes, but I don't think it's the waypoint, the ladder yaws are pointed to the ladder. They either are seeing an enemy and holding there, or I have seen them walk backwards into the bottom of the ladder and they don't always turn to face it! Most of the time they go right up the ladders ok.

Axis defense seems better with this rcw, so playing allied side is more enjoyable now... Hope you like it... smile.gif
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post May 20 2015, 12:04 PM
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Nice update, sides are fully balanced! Thanks, Max! :-)
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