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RCBot Forums _ RCbot2 _ RCBot2: suggestions

Posted by: der.zoomer Nov 8 2009, 01:14 PM

Hej there, I've been around here for a time as guest, and I really like RC Bot2 for TF2.
It works like a charm (most of the time tho...)

And to improve this bot, I have some suggestions here:


Arena Mode:
- Bot check time until capture point is available
else they would all rush to the capture point and stand there
- on my dedicated server (same binaries) they dont seem to capture points, even theyre doing it on a listen server with SAME waypoints and scripts

Snipers:
- make them sound sensitive to visible players again, they just stand on their sniper pathnodes and dont move/shoot even if there are enemy guys all over the place


Soldier:
- he shouldn't use his shot gun so often


Heavy:
- fix this god damn heavy aiming, the heavy has like 0 recoil and can hit a target with 100% accuracy (every bullet hits, even if the minigun has a large spread fire cone)
- heavy should check for distance to the nearest enemy (needs testing, because there are classes that you should take out in favour of others)


Spy:
- spies should try to melee attack enemies from behind with knife when possible
- when spies try to cap (CP, CTF, PL) they should remove their disguise


Medic:
- make medics heal more, than attacking, make them sensitive to "call for a medic" event and let them stick with this guys as soon as he is healed or even buffed
- let medics use their ubercharge when their current healing target is being attacked: event player_hurt


waypointing:
- let bots check for visibility between path nodes on calculating paths to the target
ie. when a door is closed, this path is blocked and they'll choose another path or another target
could be a problem with doors where you can see thru though... but that will eventually render setarea and givetype areaonly useless. (needs testing, because of defense points/sentry points/teleporter exit points)
this is implemented by using the "givetype openslater" waypoint type, but bots can see through EVERY door! (even though they are closed) so it doesn't work, an engine bug maybe
- a waypoint type for an alternate route would be nice, so the bots dont attack only by one path, maybe with priorities, so 1 is main path, 2 a good alternative and 3 an alternative, but less good than 2 or even 1 but possible....
I've implemented "route" waypoint types for next version, they are simple additions, so we'll see how they do after a lot of testing

Misc:
- gravity seem not to affect bots, they jump and fall like 4x faster than usual players
this is an engine bug
- when bots see a dispenser (and need supplies) they should use it
this is implemented but happens rarely


nice to have:
- bot and equipment support (use hats, other inventory you usually earn with achievements/find items)
- bot should learn how real players move around in that map

Posted by: Cheeseh Nov 9 2009, 08:12 PM

thanks it is good to have suggestions together in an easy to read fashion. I hope that in time I can get these added, because most of them are small additions, though I'm sure a lot of people have mentioned them before.

Posted by: der.zoomer Nov 10 2009, 11:01 AM

yah, lets keep a thread stickied where all suggestions are merged and someone can keep track of them all.
RCBot2 is just great

Posted by: Cheeseh Nov 10 2009, 02:49 PM

QUOTE(der.zoomer @ Nov 10 2009, 11:01 AM) *

yah, lets keep a thread stickied where all suggestions are merged and someone can keep track of them all.
RCBot2 is just great


I've added route waypoints for the next version, they seem to be working. Only work though on maps with attack points and scripts. i will explain how they work later.

i've edited the first post with some comments

Posted by: Rudolf_Hess Nov 10 2009, 07:54 PM

Well first of i know very little about Rc2bot behavior/waypoint system or Cheeseh's raoad map for this bot so mainly my intrest is in the behavior of the bot.Me think's there's two ways at lookin at the behavior:

1 How real players play

2 How the game was ment to be played(team work)

I have some ideas but i'm unshure if they will fit or even work so here goes:

Bots remember more ammo/heath pick ups?

Eng bot i guess allways builds enter teleport at base?

Eng bot checks map timer and last known cart distance from check point then checks for safest place for teleport exit near that location maybe near ammo/health/pickup?

Eng bot keeps checking last known good teleport checks if exit teleport can be moved further up the waypoints destroys current then moves teleport?

Eng bots looks for choke points of most action trys maybe to build sentry near or close to ammo/health pickup?

Eng bot tries to build sentry guns near ammo pick ups=metal?

Other bots could give covering fire when buildings are made/repaired or when fellow team player/s is reloading?

Bot react to possible in game team commands?

Scout bot strafes before or afther useing shotgun?

Heavy weapons bot focus more on short or middle range targets?

Eng bot focus on collecting more metal first before building?

Should the bots decide instead placements teleports/dispensers/sentry guns/sniper spots rarther then waypoints for these specific things(i dunno if this could be done or if it would be better?)


Waypoints as i said i know very very little the rc2bot system so here goes:

Wait waypoint for doors?

Rcbot fill sever?

Rcbot kick team 1/2?

Rcbot waypoint team specific1/2?

Rcbot waypoint combine for team specific waypoints?
The hope is with suggeston it should encorage waypointers to work together by waypointing each side of the map if they want to.This way maybe can learn from each other passing on information lessening the workload.Me think's this option should work well with unbalanced custom maps?

Posted by: der.zoomer Nov 15 2009, 12:15 PM

the sniper could orient himself on the angle of the sniper waypoint he is standing on, else he would turn around and look in the wrong direction.
However ... this needs an update of all sniper waypoints tough.
Would be cool if the heavy, when ran out of ammo agets his fists out and punches everyone biggrin.gif

Posted by: Fillmore Nov 16 2009, 01:55 PM

QUOTE(der.zoomer @ Nov 15 2009, 12:15 PM) *

the sniper could orient himself on the angle of the sniper waypoint he is standing on, else he would turn around and look in the wrong direction.
However ... this needs an update of all sniper waypoints tough.
Would be cool if the heavy, when ran out of ammo agets his fists out and punches everyone biggrin.gif

I second this biggrin.gif

Posted by: der.zoomer Nov 22 2009, 09:21 AM

Another suggestions .. or more bugfixes:
- some bots trying to use waypoint types which are not designed for them
(ie. a heavy tries to go over a rocket jump waypoint, but is stuck there)
happened to scout dj waypoints too sometimes (see 2forts)


- and please for the love of god: fix this damn heavy aiming
heavies kill sentries in no time with their 100% accurate minigun aiming where every bullet hits the target


- please fix medic heal and ubercharge with medigun
they seem to use +attack on each frame, so if the tick of the server is 33 ticks, they aquire and heal a target 33 times in a second
that causes no instant healing on team mates (it starts to heal later)
and it drains ubecharge faster because they lock on their target 33 times a second (plus ubercharge sounds weird when you get uberchraged)


- enable multi CP suport
see cp_gravelpit for example, my script is to make bots attack A, then B, then C
maybe you could enable bots to attack A and B simultaneously, this however requires more scripting because once A is capped there is still B, and only if B is done we can attack C. So there must be a way to tell the bots, the final CP is ready...


- and yes, when bots get stunned, there's a flag for it.
So let the bots check for that flag, maybe on an event or so...
just to fix that stun bug where bots are still able to move after the sandmann ball hits them


- tc_hydro support
on cap, the server gives out which CPs are enabled and capable, so the bot should listen to these signals and make out a route to them


Well it sounds so easy, but programming plugins for a Valve game without proper bot interface support.. I hope you have luck

Posted by: shahrukh1 Nov 26 2009, 01:02 AM

i think the biggest one
well i think it is the biggest one
AND I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE THIS FIXED
is to show the avatar
you no when u play and u can see peoples avatar
well i would like the bots to have all the same avatar or some random picture u can change
PLEASE GET THIS ONE
AND GET BOTS TO USE THE TELEPORTERS CUZ THATS ANNOYING WHEN THEY DONT

Posted by: Fillmore Nov 26 2009, 01:09 PM

QUOTE(shahrukh1 @ Nov 26 2009, 01:02 AM) *

i think the biggest one
well i think it is the biggest one
AND I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE THIS FIXED
is to show the avatar
you no when u play and u can see peoples avatar
well i would like the bots to have all the same avatar or some random picture u can change
PLEASE GET THIS ONE
AND GET BOTS TO USE THE TELEPORTERS CUZ THATS ANNOYING WHEN THEY DONT

Bots use teleporters but it needs to be in a precise place,otherwise they'll ignore it.
And bots stand on the teleporter for about a second.

And for my own suggestions:

-the heavybot should be allowed to move when shooting with the minigun.
-He should also actually use his shotgun, on either faraway enemies(to stop heavy from sniping with his minigun) or when he's low on primary ammo and is attacked by a bot.
-all bots should pull out melee(except Pyro) when enemies are close enough.
-Demomen should get a 'sticky' givetype, purpose is self explanitory.
-Spybots should cloak when passing route points that lead them to where they should go.(it should work)
-Rocketjump and doublejump waypoints should only be allowed for Soldier and Scout.
-Engiebots don't help other engies so often. It should be more often.
-Demomen should get a stickyjump waypoint(will be difficult be get working correctly)
-Scouts should only use teleporters if there aren't other bots on the teleporter.

Posted by: shahrukh1 Nov 26 2009, 01:12 PM

ok well try and get the avatar thingy
cuz thats all that i care about really

Posted by: der.zoomer Nov 26 2009, 04:28 PM

-Demomen should get a 'sticky' givetype, purpose is self explanitory.
> yeah that'd be cool, but there has to be an event when someone is in that sticky radius so the bot who owns these stickies can explode them
> ie capture points, choke points, flags

-Engiebots don't help other engies so often. It should be more often.
> when I plant an teleentrance at our base where another engineer comes out, he starts to whack my teleporter biggrin.gif
> But yes that would be cool so engineers could build up a defense a lot quickier
> maybe realized thru a waypoint "rcbot waypoint givetype sentry_priority"

-Demomen should get a stickyjump waypoint(will be difficult be get working correctly)
> should work like double jump and rocket jump, demoman can move while in air, but yes it needs some tuning though

Posted by: Fillmore Nov 26 2009, 07:03 PM

QUOTE(der.zoomer @ Nov 22 2009, 09:21 AM) *

Another suggestions .. or more bugfixes:
- and please for the love of god: fix this damn heavy aiming
heavies kill sentries in no time with their 100% accurate minigun aiming where every bullet hits the target

If I remember correctly,Valve modded the miniguns spreading.

Occasionally when firing, it turns into a sniper rifle,minus the headshots biggrin.gif

Posted by: Sjru Nov 30 2009, 09:07 PM

QUOTE(Fillmore @ Nov 26 2009, 10:09 AM) *

Bots use teleporters but it needs to be in a precise place,otherwise they'll ignore it.

-Demomen should get a 'sticky' givetype, purpose is self explanitory.



Can you explain better the "precise place"? You mean in the same place as another waypoint?.

Stickies waypoint should be with radius, and to explode, the bot could check if an enemy is passing through the waypoint to explode, or just check if the stickies are near an enemy.

The sniper issue needs to be fixed ASAP. Sniper only are useful on maps without sniper points, duh.

The attack script for the scout should be changed, for some reason, when I play as heavy, they just run straight forward to me, dying obiously. (they should strafe)

The last suggestion are about the carts, the just jam and bulk near the cart, making they an easy target for explosives.

Another request: I don't have a dual core cpu, and every bot I add (starting from the 5'th) takes out 10 fps. Lowering the rcbot_visrev and rcbot_pathrevs cvars only gives me a 1-2 fps improvement. Can you make a cvar, if possible, to lighten the cpu usage of the bots? Thank you in advance.

Posted by: der.zoomer Dec 16 2009, 03:09 PM

Yet another suggestion here:
You know.. when bots are bumping into an obstacle they cannot avoid, they start to jump 3 times.
Would you be so kind to create a CVAR which controls how many times the bot is jumping? biggrin.gif

Posted by: der.zoomer Jan 6 2010, 09:05 PM

Some more suggestions:
- Spy detection
When I'm disguised as my own team color, all enemy bots cry SPY all the time.
They can't even know I'm a spy and because I'm disguised as my own team color they will attack me anyways.
Just my 2 cents because I'm career spy with Dead Ringer + Ambasador which requires other tactics than reguar spy. (involving disguising as own team class color).

Posted by: Otakumanu May 10 2010, 08:45 PM

My suggestion would be some of the first ones:
Snipers should snipe, I mean, most of the time they are looking at walls.
Bots should be able to capture points on arena and cp_gravelpit, since in arena, they dont capture the points and since they dont look everywhere for hidden enemies, the game never ends.
This are just my suggestions, from what I played.
Nice bots though.

Posted by: Otakumanu May 12 2010, 09:40 PM

Oh, and I just wanted to tell that in some maps(dustbowl,pl), bots dont seem to build sentreis.

Posted by: Fillmore May 22 2010, 10:37 AM

QUOTE(Otakumanu @ May 12 2010, 09:40 PM) *

Oh, and I just wanted to tell that in some maps(dustbowl,pl), bots dont seem to build sentreis.

pl_dustbowl,huh? Does the map have sentry givetypes in it?

Posted by: Cheeseh May 23 2010, 12:22 AM

QUOTE(Fillmore @ May 22 2010, 11:37 AM) *

pl_dustbowl,huh? Does the map have sentry givetypes in it?

you may noticed though that some waypoints are abysmal smile.gif , haha, and they need fixing, especially with CP maps as they should use scripts, because they will need several waypoint areas

Posted by: Fillmore Jun 16 2010, 05:56 PM

Just a suggestion:

- snipebots aim in the head of enemies when sniping. To avoid aimbot snipers, a variable will tell either how much his aim can be off, or propability that he'll bodyshot.

Posted by: Doomer1 Aug 12 2010, 08:15 AM

First i wanted to commend you on some excellent work I love the bots. My two kids are new to the game and still young and letting them play with bots keeps them away from the adult language in regular servers. So thank you for your hard work.

Most of the suggestions we wanted to share have been mentioned but I guess it won't hurt to add a few comments.

Medics - We would love to see some ubercharge atacks. When we establish a good sentry section it would be more challenging if we had to deal with some ubercharges.

Engineers - Is there anyway to get them to stay close to what they have built. It seems they build and then frolic off alot smile.gif

Heavys - in the latest version they tend to shoot at walls and floors or friendly players occaisionally and then hop alot. THeys still fight when attacked but their behavior seems erratic which maybe be why the medics dont heal them or team up with them.

Scouts work great btw Love em.

Snipers do as well


Spys have definitely improved and are almost as annoying as real ones smile.gif

Just a few things we noticed in the games we play, We cannot wait for the next version and look forward to seeing what you dream up next.


Sincerely,

Doomer1 and his siblings Doomer Jr. and Misfire.

P.S. We would love to see waypoints for all the default maps. Any chance you could get the community to assemble a default map waypoint pack?

Posted by: Fillmore Aug 18 2010, 02:01 PM

Here would be a bunch of things to recommend:

- All bots, excluding the Spy and Scout, should push ahead when a Medic of their team activates a ubercharge.

- Using the dispenser spotting code, the RCbots could spot teleporter entrances they want to use, and stand still on them, like they do when waiting for health or ammo.

- Snipers should be allowed to headshot, with a variable for bodyshotting (should always be high enough to avoid Aimbot snipers)

- Bots should stop taunting when picking up health or ammo and do it when killing a player (random chance) or when they win a round (4 seconds to tauntfest, to let them kill off the losers)

-There should be a sentry belief mark, so bots can 'remember' where a sentry might be. When they near the mark, they might say 'sentry ahead!'

-They also need to actually know where they are. Bots wouldn't be so easy to beat with a lvl3 sentry alone and Spies would harass Engies a lot more.

Posted by: MarD Oct 30 2010, 03:29 PM

Heyyo,

I was wondering if at all possible to add support for the Source SDK Base 2007? I would love to see RCbot2 working in Goldeneye Source Beta4 since it's now shaping up to be a fantastic mod, but the player base is quite small at the moment. sad.gif

Right now I can get it to load rcbot2 adding in this...

CODE
#
mod = CUSTOM
steamdir = source sdk base 2007
gamedir = gesource
bot = HL2DM

Without that it just crashes.. but then I try to use any command and I get "you do not have access to this command" even though I have both my actual SteamID and the "STEAM_ID_LAN" both set to 63 AND of course I make sure "sv_cheats 1" first.

[EDIT1]
LOL! wth.. apparently my "addons" folder in sourcemods\gesource\addons" has "access denied" which is weird... cause that's where I had the .vdf for loading the bot originally before it crashed a few times and decided to test with console commands.. really odd.

[EDIT2]
K after more messing around after a reboot the addons folder just vanished oddly enough.. anywho after that I made a new .vdf loader in the sourcemods\gesource\addons folder with the hpb_bot2.dll in the source sdk base 2007\bin folder? and it worked! I made basic waypoints for ge_library_classic.. but alas.. no bot spawning with accessclients.ini set to either "mod = CUSTOM" or "bot = CSS" or "bot = HL2DM".. I don't think it likes the spawn interface of Goldenye Source, it gives me a "unknown command: bot" everytime.

Posted by: Cheeseh Oct 31 2010, 07:43 AM

QUOTE(MarD @ Oct 30 2010, 03:29 PM) *

it gives me a "unknown command: bot" everytime.


i'm just in the process of releasing a new bot with the old bot spawning method for mods other than TF2

Posted by: MarD Nov 1 2010, 01:27 AM

Heyyo,

QUOTE(Cheeseh @ Oct 30 2010, 11:43 PM) *

i'm just in the process of releasing a new bot with the old bot spawning method for mods other than TF2

OMFG YES! Love you Cheeseh, that is very win. biggrin.gif

[EDIT1]
Btw you need waypoints for a mod to test with lemme know and I'll do up a map for it. wink.gif

[EDIt2]
Well just incase one of the mods you wanna test is Goldeneye Source beta 4 since it's active attached is waypoints for ge_library_classic to test with for now. Nothing special just fully waypointed map just needs types for weapon pickups and ammo pickups and such.. I didn't add any of the tf2 flags cause they might make bots camp the stuff for the wrong things, lol.

The only spot on this map I didn't waypoint are the two hidden passages to the secret way in and out of the basement of the library (incase you don't know where it is, just noclip and zoom around the outside you'll see the walls and the paths behind them.


Attached File(s)
Attached File  Rcbot2_waypoint_ge_library_classic.zip ( 9.96k ) Number of downloads: 28

Posted by: dzoo Nov 2 2010, 11:42 AM

getting cooler from time to time, these RCBots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm looking forward to the following improvements
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Cheeseh Nov 2 2010, 01:16 PM

QUOTE(dzoo @ Nov 2 2010, 11:42 AM) *

getting cooler from time to time, these RCBots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm looking forward to the following improvements
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ok , i've uploaded a test DLL . 0.58 , dl from source forge

0.58
- TF2: bots already capturing the point don't return to defend points if they're being captured
- Orange Box: compatible with orange box HL2DM and other orange box mods
- returned bot spawn system back to normal for mods other than TF2

http://sourceforge.net/projects/rcbot2/files/rcbot2/RCBot2%200.58%20beta/RCBot2_058_beta.zip/download

please test for Tf2 , HL2dm and other mods , as they will all be affected, no new changes except those above

Posted by: MarD Nov 3 2010, 07:36 AM

Heyyo,

Cool stuff! Thus far though I am not having any luck trying it with Goldeneye Source Beta 4, Empires 2.25 (I still need to download latest) and Pirates Vikings and Knights II.. any idea what they should bet set in the "bot_mods.ini" file? Here's what I tried.. they load and I can waypoint but if I try to add bots they crash with no error messages.

CODE
#
mod = CUSTOM
steamdir = pirates, vikings, and knights ii
gamedir = pvkii
bot = HL2DM
#
mod = CUSTOM
steamdir = source sdk base 2007
gamedir = gesource
bot = HL2DM
#
mod = CUSTOM
steamdir = source sdk base 2007
gamedir = Empires
bot = HL2DM

If I set both mod and bot to "TF2" I get the "Unknown Command: bot" but if I change the mod or bot to any other type the game crashes on add. sad.gif

Posted by: MarD Nov 29 2010, 06:53 PM

Heyyo,

Hmm, Yeah Cheeseh I can't get Rcbot2 0.58 to even work in CSS. Gives me the same error as before.

CODE
] rcbot addbot
[RCBot] bot added
Unknown command: bot


It would be cool to see rcbot working in mods cause I'd love me some Goldeneye Source with bots since there's like... no one online, lol. tongue.gif

Posted by: Cheeseh Dec 5 2010, 09:11 AM

QUOTE(MarD @ Nov 29 2010, 06:53 PM) *

Heyyo,

Hmm, Yeah Cheeseh I can't get Rcbot2 0.58 to even work in CSS. Gives me the same error as before.

CODE
] rcbot addbot
[RCBot] bot added
Unknown command: bot


It would be cool to see rcbot working in mods cause I'd love me some Goldeneye Source with bots since there's like... no one online, lol. tongue.gif

if the game crashes then chances are its just like the old tf2 bot adding method, when it used to crash. Unfortunately theres nothing ~I can do about it cos its an engine problem i believe, it doesnt crash in the bot code.

Posted by: WillardZ Dec 11 2010, 10:28 PM

QUOTE(Cheeseh @ Nov 2 2010, 06:16 AM) *

please test for Tf2 , HL2dm and other mods , as they will all be affected, no new changes except those above


Never mind.

Posted by: Sjru Feb 17 2011, 12:18 AM

Just some ideas for bots behaviour (Only if the bots are still being developed):

* Engineers should prioritize rebuilding their destroyed sentry near their dispenser (If it wasn't destroyed and there is a sentry waypoint near it). Because i've found that sometimes when bots (manages) to destroy a engineer sentry (but not his dispenser) he would leave the dispenser alone to rebuild his sentry on another sentry location.

* Medics should not uber you randomly. (BTW: fix them, their lag until they heal makes them somewhat useless as healers)

* Perhaps a bit hard to do, but bots should "organise" themselves as scuads and harass as a group. I don't want to see anymore an entire team failing just because they attack alone and disorganised.

* Enemy disguised spies should stop staring at you as if they've just watched some goatse, so they could become a little less suspicious. Also, perhaps they could use their "lastdisguise" button to switch their weapon disguises to something more useful (engineer disguise with wrench instead of shotgun.)

* Basic support for medieval mode (I don't expect anything further than bots using their melee weapons).

* When there are no waypoints nearby, bots should "move" randomly in any direction instead of standing still, (See TFC FoXboT).

* Basic code support for loadout weapons, or any other weapon they may be handling that are not defaults (So if they suddenly get stripped of their main and secondary weapon but not their melee, they may switch to it instead of being rendered useless and having "civilian" neutral pose.

________________________________________________________________________________
__________
Edit: More suggestions.

* There should be an option to make a waypoint class specific, such as doublejump waypoints only to scouts or rocketjump to soldiers. I mean a separate option because just restricting doublejump to scouts and rocketjumps could break the waypoints on some maps where such waypoints share connections to others. (So it's only neccesary to add waypoints specific to rocket/doublejump).

* Make a waypoint option for "control point capture". While the actual method is OK for most maps it makes trouble for those hybrid CTF/CP maps. This would add compatibility which such maps. The other method should be still be used, however.

* Add some basic bot-chat options, just to inform other players what they will do (ie; "Attemping to cap a point;uberchanging X;chasing down Z;defending intelligence/CP", and so on.

Posted by: Fillmore Feb 19 2011, 07:44 AM

QUOTE(Sjru @ Feb 17 2011, 12:18 AM) *

Just some ideas for bots behaviour (Only if the bots are still being developed):

* Engineers should prioritize rebuilding their destroyed sentry near their dispenser (If it wasn't destroyed and there is a sentry waypoint near it). Because i've found that sometimes when bots (manages) to destroy a engineer sentry (but not his dispenser) he would leave the dispenser alone to rebuild his sentry on another sentry location.

* Medics should not uber you randomly. (BTW: fix them, their lag until they heal makes them somewhat useless as healers)

They don't, they uber you when you get hit, they get hit or they see an enemy. But I think they should use the uber when attacking a control point and upon sight of enemies.

* Perhaps a bit hard to do, but bots should "organise" themselves as scuads and harass as a group. I don't want to see anymore an entire team failing just because they attack alone and disorganised.

This is possible but the method to accomplish it is very difficult.

* Enemy disguised spies should stop staring at you as if they've just watched some goatse, so they could become a little less suspicious. Also, perhaps they could use their "lastdisguise" button to switch their weapon disguises to something more useful (engineer disguise with wrench instead of shotgun.)

This sounds simple. Just make spies ignore enemies other than their targets. But it could be made better.

* Basic support for medieval mode (I don't expect anything further than bots using their melee weapons).

Pretty simple to make, at the moment just play all-demoman teams(the only bots who consistently use their melee weapon.)

* When there are no waypoints nearby, bots should "move" randomly in any direction instead of standing still, (See TFC FoXboT).

* Basic code support for loadout weapons, or any other weapon they may be handling that are not defaults (So if they suddenly get stripped of their main and secondary weapon but not their melee, they may switch to it instead of being rendered useless and having "civilian" neutral pose.

That might be difficult to accomplish, but maybe...

________________________________________________________________________________
__________
Edit: More suggestions.

* There should be an option to make a waypoint class specific, such as doublejump waypoints only to scouts or rocketjump to soldiers. I mean a separate option because just restricting doublejump to scouts and rocketjumps could break the waypoints on some maps where such waypoints share connections to others. (So it's only neccesary to add waypoints specific to rocket/doublejump).

I agree with this one. I've seen so many engineers fall down holes and other classes running into walls because they couldn't double or rocket jump as demanded by the waypoint.

* Make a waypoint option for "control point capture". While the actual method is OK for most maps it makes trouble for those hybrid CTF/CP maps. This would add compatibility which such maps. The other method should be still be used, however.

* Add some basic bot-chat options, just to inform other players what they will do (ie; "Attemping to cap a point;uberchanging X;chasing down Z;defending intelligence/CP", and so on.

They should also use pretty much a lot of their voice commands. (Help, Nice shot, etc.)

You got some nice ideas in there. Let's hope that they're added someday. I added the lines written in Italic.

Posted by: Sjru Feb 19 2011, 05:49 PM

QUOTE(Fillmore @ Feb 19 2011, 04:44 AM) *

You got some nice ideas in there. Let's hope that they're added someday. I added the lines written in Italic.


Yeah, it's nice to dream. Honestly, with just Cheseeh it would take a "while" to do some of those things.
I also think that the best way to go is to send a mail to Robin Walker and have the bots featured on the blog. With that, we ensure that somebody would apply to give extra help coding RCBot.

QUOTE(Fillmore @ Feb 19 2011, 04:44 AM) *
Pretty simple to make, at the moment just play all-demoman teams(the only bots who consistently use their melee weapon.)


The only reliable way I found to make an entire team to play melee is to use a SM plugin (I think it's called meleemode) and enable it. Then use the command cc_bot_selectweaponslot to force bots to use the melee slot. Otherwise they remain in civilian reference pose because they try to use their normal weapons. It was also neccesary to use a script to repeat the cc_... command.

Here are other suggestions:

* Carth path waypoint: Even since bots follow the cart around, they sometimes "forget" where it is and, depending on how the map was waypointed, thing could just get slow or hinder a team advancement. With this kind of waypoint, the waypointer just would need to add that waypoint to the "cart path" and set the dependant area. So the bots, if they are lost, they know where to go to find the cart.

* Demo's layin' of stickies should be checked: I suggest a "sticky" waypoint (Probably better with radius) where the demomen should lay it's stickies. Of course he should lay stickies on dropped intelligences, while continuing to do its job on CP. Also defending demos should lay stickies on the cart and it's surroundings.

* Spies should desist to zap buildings while there are many enemies around. (Since now bots spot spies zapping buildings) and instead try to catch another prey while alone. On the other hand, spies SHOULD try to (At least) give up his life to zap a sentry WHILE other teammates are attacking the area, even if there are many enemies around. This would up the success rate of those attacks. Also, if possible, to train spies to stab'n'zap the engineer and their sentry.

* A "Visibility check" waypoint: Such waypoint would have normal visiblity checks (those when you create waypoints) when a bot attemp to use that waypoint. If the check fails, the bot would ignore that waypoint and look for other one. This would allow waypointing of changing areas, such as tc_hydro, when some areas are changed with walls or other obstacles, which cannot be pathed with normal "areaonly" or "area" waypoints.

* I don't know if it's possible, but perhaps RCBot could "use" or "borrow" the TFBot method of spawning bots, just to prevent the use of sv_cheats. Also, perhaps, if possible, revise and check TFBot to see how to fix the Medic-healing, heavy super-spread, and pyro invisible flame.

* A quick edit to the script system, to allow multi-cp maps such as cp_gravelpit to allow bots to try to cap both waypoints at once. Generally, a way to have advanced scripts without complicatin' that much.

* Allow pyro's to set friendly snipers huntman's arrows on fire (Notice that this happens accidentally if your hunstman sniper is near an attacking friendly pyro, as there are invisible flames).

* Basic spycheck?: Make bots suspect of a spy when they bump into an "teammate". * Make bots to suspect of those "teammates" that are staring/looking at them too much. * If bots suspect, make them to intentionally "bump" into the "teammate" to confirm if it's a spy. If it's is a pyro, or a bot with surplus ammo, instead make them to shoot to the "teammate", if the bots sees that the "teammate" is injured from the hit, make them proceed to confirm that it's a spy and kill it.

* A water type waypoint: As it's suggests: When a waypoint is flagged as "water" bots would try to go to such waypoints when they're burned/jarate'd/or other condition. Of course, that would need extra waypointing.

* Perhaps unlikely but I'll suggest it anyways: Add the ability for the engies to haul their buildings to appropiate locations if their "area" was moved. (eg in cp_granary, when 1 CP remains and the engi is still camping with his sentry on the other part of the map). This would allow the engy to move his nest to a nearer "area" (Which is set by the script) while remaining useful to his team.

* A "control" type waypoint, why?: RCBots gameplay is restricted to the map suffix (cp, to control point, ctf, to capture the flag, etc), which is a major hindrance on some custom maps, specially hybrid ones (CTF and CP). Having a waypoint that allows you to set the goals of the maps could be a good, easy way to solve this issue. Also, it would bots to play the gameplay mode that those maps offer, without being forced to change the name of that map to those of the gameplay (I've seen CP maps that are not suffixed CP). Incidentaly, bots should not use this kind of waypoint.

Posted by: dzoo May 2 2011, 08:30 AM

I saw a video of the so-called Saigns Server.
these servers there are Bots like Rcbot2
they differ only:

- They wear hats
- and behave like other players (jump, talk,taunt, other)

the only problem
you need Premium access to the server! ph34r.gif
:8
These bots may cause a lot of ideas for future rcbot2
biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=674tz4gA0wQ

and a Saigns and TfBots fight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywbjC1xgSgQ...feature=related



Posted by: Shans Nov 11 2011, 06:09 PM

please add support for insurgency the most realistic hl2 mod and cs promod

Posted by: TesterYYY Jan 27 2013, 11:39 AM

* Can you make better rcbot waypoint menu because It's annoying to open everytime menu when I select only one option from menu it get closed. Waypoint option menu needs button OK so when you are ready you just press button and save waypoint settings.
* Add some waypointer settings in rc bot launcher to enable waypoints/pathwaypoints in game, enable some special waypointer binds (cfg, add, del, menu etc.)

Posted by: Fillmore Jan 27 2013, 12:59 PM

QUOTE(TesterYYY @ Jan 27 2013, 11:39 AM) *

* Can you make better rcbot waypoint menu because It's annoying to open everytime menu when I select only one option from menu it get closed. Waypoint option menu needs button OK so when you are ready you just press button and save waypoint settings.
* Add some waypointer settings in rc bot launcher to enable waypoints/pathwaypoints in game, enable some special waypointer binds (cfg, add, del, menu etc.)

While the "enable waypoints/pathwaypoints in-game" option in the launcher sounds nice, those binds could be easily made by yourself and the console.

I've never used the menu, I just binded necessary commands biggrin.gif

Posted by: genmac Jan 28 2013, 02:59 AM

Yo Fillmore can you show us your binds so I we'll have an idea how to do it like for
example wpts binds for snipers and ladders and flags etc?

Posted by: Fillmore Jan 28 2013, 07:36 AM

QUOTE(genmac @ Jan 28 2013, 02:59 AM) *

Yo Fillmore can you show us your binds so I we'll have an idea how to do it like for
example wpts binds for snipers and ladders and flags etc?

Well, I've only got waypoint adding/removing and pathwaypoint creating/removing and team restrictions binded, for the other commands I just use the console. But what the hell.

bind f1 "rcbot waypoint add"
bind f2 "rcbot waypoint delete"
bind f5 "rcbot waypoint givetype noredteam"
bind f6 "rcbot waypoint givetype noblueteam"
bind f9 "rcbot pathwaypoint create1"
bind f10 "rcbot pathwaypoint create2"
bind f11 "rcbot pathwaypoint remove1"
bind f12 "rcbot pathwaypoint remove2"

Posted by: Cheeseh Jan 28 2013, 09:46 AM

QUOTE(genmac @ Jan 28 2013, 03:59 AM) *

Yo Fillmore can you show us your binds so I we'll have an idea how to do it like for
example wpts binds for snipers and ladders and flags etc?


here's some more examples I would use something like...

for waypoint areas

bind kp_ins "rcbot waypoint setarea 0"
bind kp_end "rcbot waypoint setarea 1"
bind kp_downarrow "rcbot waypoint setarea 2"
bind kp_pgdn "rcbot waypoint setarea 3"
bind kp_left "rcbot waypoint setarea 4"
...
etc

// sniper waypoint for axis only (DOD:S)
bind kp_plus "rcbot waypoint add noallies sniper"
// TF2 sniper waypoint, red only
bind kp_plus "rcbot waypoint add noredteam sniper"

Posted by: genmac Jan 29 2013, 07:46 AM

Tnx guys! Those are very helpful.

Posted by: madmax2 May 11 2013, 09:19 PM

Hey Guys,

Before I start my first full rcbot2 rcw, i'd like any suggestions that will make it easier/faster to complete. Here is my current exec key binds cfg. What most useful binds or cvars, should i add to it? I don't want to fill up the keyboard with to many binds, I like to keep them away from my playing keys, plus I probably won't remember them. I may need more radius options, and is there a recommended auto radius setting, mine is defaulted to zero?

Hey, genmac, i'd like to see your key binds, could you post them? thanks...

Here's mine:

CODE

//rcbot2binds.cfg

rcbot waypoint on
rcbot pathwaypoint on
rcbot waypoint drawtype 2
rcbot_notarget 1
mp_timelimit 0
rcbot pathwaypoint disable

bind "INS" "rcbot waypoint add"
bind "DEL" "rcbot waypoint delete"
bind "END" "rcbot waypoint save"
bind "HOME" "rcbot waypoint load"
bind "-" "rcbot waypoint menu"
bind "PGUP" "rcbot pathwaypoint create1"
bind "PGDN" "rcbot pathwaypoint create2"
bind "[" "rcbot pathwaypoint remove1"
bind "]" "rcbot pathwaypoint remove2"
bind "F2" "rcbot waypoint info"
bind kp_ins "rcbot waypoint setarea 0"
bind kp_end "rcbot waypoint setarea 1"
bind kp_downarrow "rcbot waypoint setarea 2"
bind kp_pgdn "rcbot waypoint setarea 3"
bind kp_leftarrow "rcbot waypoint setarea 4"
bind kp_plus "rcbot pathwaypoint deleteto"
bind kp_minus "rcbot pathwaypoint deletefrom"
bind KP_ENTER "rcbot waypoint drawtype 0"
bind kp_slash "rcbot waypoint drawtype 1"
bind kp_multiply "rcbot waypoint drawtype 2"
bind kp_del "rcbot waypoint updateyaw"
bind kp_5 "rcbot waypoint setradius 10"

I've been using the waypoint menu a lot, for givetype's. I got used to using the rcbot1 menu, which is simple, efficient and i got fast at using it, lots of repeated key presses tho.. I know, currently, cheeseh is bug hunting, and it has been allready suggested here, but i'm adding my vote for an improved menu in some future rcbot2 release. New waypointers tend to use the menus first, so i think it might make it easier for some people to get started at waypointing.

I know some of this has allready been said rolleyes.gif, but here are my waypoint menu suggestions:

1. If it can be done, eliminate the 2 key press to get into the menu.

2. Allow multiple selections, no more auto exit on first selection, add a back/previous button too... this is actually my most desired item on the list, just doing this would help a lot... maybe just this can be added for the short term???

3. Either group simular items together with sub menus, or put the most used items/givetypes first. If you did sub menus, you could add a page for a selection of different radi. Omnibot had that in its menus, i used it a lot...

4. Add a numeric option for each button, give us the option to use the mouse or keyboard.

5. If you have to, dump the fancy graphics/mouse/button thing, for simple text keyboard input like in rcbot1. At any rate, keyboard input is faster that mouse presses, unless a back or previous button is added to the menu, and multiple selections can be checked off.

Anyways, thats my 2 cents worth, heh heh... I have a couple wacky ideas, but now's probably not the time... tongue.gif

max

Posted by: genmac May 13 2013, 09:01 AM

Ok here are my binds that I use a lot at the moment for wpting purposes...


bind "F5" "rcbot waypoint on"

bind "F6" "rcbot pathwaypoint on"

bind "F7" "rcbot waypoint off"


bind "t" "rcbot waypoint add"
bind "y" "rcbot waypoint delete"

bind c noclip .....very important too.

bind "i" "rcbot waypoint save"
bind "u" "rcbot waypoint menu"


These are very important so I can put paths where I want them etc...
bind "o" "rcbot pathwaypoint create2"

bind "p" "rcbot pathwaypoint create1"

bind "k" "rcbot pathwaypoint remove2"

bind "l" "rcbot pathwaypoint remove1"

bind "[" "rcbot_wpt_pathdist 0"
bind "]" "rcbot_wpt_pathdist 500"

g, h, j, are reserved for path distances like 50-200 then I would overwrite them
for radiuses when finalising the wpts.



Others are all set to numpad keys...

For wpts draws...very important for me.
bind "KP_INS" "rcbot waypoint drawtype 0"
bind "KP_ENTER" "rcbot waypoint drawtype 1"

bind "KP_DEL" "rcbot waypoint drawtype 2"

for multi givetypes...
bind "KP_LEFTARROW" "rcbot waypoint givetype noallies sniper machinegun defend"

bind "KP_5" "rcbot waypoint givetype noaxis sniper machinegun defend"


others...
bind "KP_RIGHTARROW" "rcbot waypoint givetype noallies"
bind "KP_PGUP" "rcbot waypoint givetype noaxis"

bind "KP_HOME" "rcbot waypoint setradius 0"
bind "KP_UPARROW" "rcbot waypoint updateyaw"

Sometimes I forgot which is which so I just bind new ones hehe.


For bot testing purposes...
bind "." "rcbot addbot" ....all my games that has bots that's the key I always use to spawn them one at a time.
This one needs some tweaking coz it sometimes add bots too much on the other team if pressed too fast.

bind "/" "rcbot kickbot" ...This one needs some tweaking as well coz it sometimes removes bots too much on the other team
if pressed too fast.

bind "F4" "exec kickall" ...I made some configs here to kick all bots in one key stroke.

bind "F9" "exec kickallallies"

bind "F10" "exec kickallaxis"


Ok that's about most of it.


Always hit SAVE key when making wpts coz you never know dods might suddenly crash and loose all
wpting work so I always hit it a lot while my fingers hovers the keyboard.

And back up the wpt asap as well coz you never know your pc might suddenly go berzerk hehe.

Posted by: Fillmore May 14 2013, 06:26 AM

QUOTE(genmac @ May 13 2013, 09:01 AM) *

-readthepostaboveyourself-

The sudden crashing is a bitch, but having rcbot_runplayer_hookonce set to 0 fixed it for me.

Posted by: Cheeseh May 14 2013, 11:48 AM

QUOTE(Fillmore @ May 14 2013, 07:26 AM) *

The sudden crashing is a bitch, but having rcbot_runplayer_hookonce set to 0 fixed it for me.


I've made a lot of fixes and changes for tf2 in the next update, including two crash issues, hope it will reduce the crashing

as for a waypoint menu, I am working on it now, it looks like this so far. I will add more options later.

The waypoint flags shows the same colour as the waypoint. and opens a new menu to add extra types, the menu doesn't close until you press exit. The waypoint flags menu has all the colours for the types too







Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: madmax2 May 14 2013, 05:29 PM

Thanks for working on the waypoint menu cheeseh, can't wait to try it... I see radius & wpt values on the menu, numeric selection, & submenus, very nice... biggrin.gif

@genmac
Thanks man, for your key binds & tips..

@Fillmore

QUOTE

The sudden crashing is a bitch, but having rcbot_runplayer_hookonce set to 0 fixed it for me.

With dods, my crashes were mostly with debug usage before the .73 update, and I havent used debug much lately. But I may of had a couple crashes, so I may have to try this? It's been so few lately, I didn't even think to try this... rolleyes.gif

Posted by: genmac May 15 2013, 03:38 AM

Mine normally never crashes except when I use sourcemod dods_dm but on one custom map only so far probably some corrupted dm spawn points.

One time it crashes when bot uses a wpt capture with prone tag so I just removed that and it was ok again.

Sometimes my kid would snick on me when I take a break and would quit dods since he knows where the "quit" command is binded on hehe. But lately he loves to play dods in god mode haha!

@Cheeseh...Nice to know you're improving the menu.

Posted by: Cheeseh May 23 2013, 03:13 AM

QUOTE(genmac @ May 15 2013, 04:38 AM) *

Mine normally never crashes except when I use sourcemod dods_dm but on one custom map only so far probably some corrupted dm spawn points.

One time it crashes when bot uses a wpt capture with prone tag so I just removed that and it was ok again.

Sometimes my kid would snick on me when I take a break and would quit dods since he knows where the "quit" command is binded on hehe. But lately he loves to play dods in god mode haha!

@Cheeseh...Nice to know you're improving the menu.


Hey guys have you since tried the new waypoint menu? Let me know what you think

Posted by: genmac May 23 2013, 04:39 AM

Yo Cheeseh....wpt menu looks better but I can't make it work I can't even exit it even though I re-bind 9 to slot9...yeah I'm using 6-0 keys for bots stuff so probably I have to rebind them all back first.

Posted by: Cheeseh May 23 2013, 05:20 AM

QUOTE(genmac @ May 23 2013, 05:39 AM) *

Yo Cheeseh....wpt menu looks better but I can't make it work I can't even exit it even though I re-bind 9 to slot9...yeah I'm using 6-0 keys for bots stuff so probably I have to rebind them all back first.


the bot should automaically bind all your 1 - 9 and 0 keys as , menuselect 1, menuselect 2 etc when you open the menu

it will rebind them all back to slot1 slot2 etc... the bot cannot pick up slot1 etc commands for some reason. so if it isn't binding your keys, you can use the numeric keypad and bind all the keys 0 - 9 as menuselect

Posted by: genmac May 23 2013, 09:53 AM

Ok it's working now. Needs some getting use to though.

Posted by: madmax2 May 23 2013, 06:11 PM

Hey Cheeseh,

I did look at the waypointing menu and will give some feedback shortly.. I just need to play with it a bit more to give some useful feedback... I can say it's colorful, heh heh... smile.gif

max

[edit]
First, thanks again for working on this. I really want to give good feedback on this, so this likely won't be the end of it... but i'll start with this... here goes... wink.gif

Likes, dislikes, questions, and suggestions (DOD:s):

I like the numeric options and the fact that you show the values for wpts, such as radius right on the menus. Color is good too, but i'm not sure about the rainbow effect, maybe organize the color a bit, one or two colors per menu? Also, the dark blue is kinda hard to read on my crappy monitor. Larger text would help this...

Question blink.gif .. why does the menu float/jitter on my screen when I move? It also often cuts the numbers in half on the left side of the screen. If I look up at the sky or down at my feet, the menu moves to the center of the screen. Is it just me & my low res of 1024x768? I would like to see the menu solidly fixed in one place on the screen..

Off topic but related: Same with debug bot hud. please fix it to one place on the screen, like rcbot1, and use a seperate visual indicator for thier location, such as bot name in bright red, white is fine though. When the bot dies, i have to keep relocating it on the screen, and sometimes it's just hard to read when they are moving.

I think the area & radius menus +/- control is ok, and I could get comfortable with it. maybe a lower option on the radius menu, around 10. I use this radius a lot for sticky places in the map, or just to give them a little more freedom of movement.. I've got 10 bound, so it's not that important to me... The yaw works ok too...

Now the really important ones... navigation & order in this menu is very important...

About the givetypes menu, the order seems awkward to me. I'd like to see things such as noallies/noaxis/defend/sniper/mg grouped together and be first. I think prone/crouch should be on same page as that group too, and jump if possible? I'll think about this one more, the first page of givetype's is very important. (oh and what is health doing there? is that tf2? I don't have tf2, so i was wondering if the order was linked to that, I hope it's seperate?...)

Also very important, more & back should allways be the same keys. 0 & 9 are good, but I'd like them reversed, it feel more intuitive. So make 0=more and 9=back. the 9=back falling back to 9=exit will work nicely together...

I'll have to play around with the other options (cut, copy, paste), but they are probably ok? #8, confused me and I got lost for a while, losing all the normal wpts visibility. Until i retoggled all the settings I changed... What do you see this option useful for? The reason escapes me right now??

All in all a good start.. I'll give more feedback on this later ... thanks... smile.gif

max

Posted by: Cheeseh May 24 2013, 01:53 AM

QUOTE(madmax2 @ May 23 2013, 07:11 PM) *

Hey Cheeseh,

I did look at the waypointing menu and will give some feedback shortly.. I just need to play with it a bit more to give some useful feedback... I can say it's colorful, heh heh... smile.gif

max

[edit]
First, thanks again for working on this. I really want to give good feedback on this, so this likely won't be the end of it... but i'll start with this... here goes... wink.gif

Likes, dislikes, questions, and suggestions (DOD:s):

I like the numeric options and the fact that you show the values for wpts, such as radius right on the menus. Color is good too, but i'm not sure about the rainbow effect, maybe organize the color a bit, one or two colors per menu? Also, the dark blue is kinda hard to read on my crappy monitor. Larger text would help this...

Question blink.gif .. why does the menu float/jitter on my screen when I move? It also often cuts the numbers in half on the left side of the screen. If I look up at the sky or down at my feet, the menu moves to the center of the screen. Is it just me & my low res of 1024x768? I would like to see the menu solidly fixed in one place on the screen..

Off topic but related: Same with debug bot hud. please fix it to one place on the screen, like rcbot1, and use a seperate visual indicator for thier location, such as bot name in bright red, white is fine though. When the bot dies, i have to keep relocating it on the screen, and sometimes it's just hard to read when they are moving.

I think the area & radius menus +/- control is ok, and I could get comfortable with it. maybe a lower option on the radius menu, around 10. I use this radius a lot for sticky places in the map, or just to give them a little more freedom of movement.. I've got 10 bound, so it's not that important to me... The yaw works ok too...

Now the really important ones... navigation & order in this menu is very important...

About the givetypes menu, the order seems awkward to me. I'd like to see things such as noallies/noaxis/defend/sniper/mg grouped together and be first. I think prone/crouch should be on same page as that group too, and jump if possible? I'll think about this one more, the first page of givetype's is very important. (oh and what is health doing there? is that tf2? I don't have tf2, so i was wondering if the order was linked to that, I hope it's seperate?...)

Also very important, more & back should allways be the same keys. 0 & 9 are good, but I'd like them reversed, it feel more intuitive. So make 0=more and 9=back. the 9=back falling back to 9=exit will work nicely together...

I'll have to play around with the other options (cut, copy, paste), but they are probably ok? #8, confused me and I got lost for a while, losing all the normal wpts visibility. Until i retoggled all the settings I changed... What do you see this option useful for? The reason escapes me right now??

All in all a good start.. I'll give more feedback on this later ... thanks... smile.gif

max


I don't know about a rainbow smile.gif but I use the colours as they are the same as the waypoints (waypoint types) and you know what colours they are. I was going to increase the brightness of the colours so that dark blue is easier to read.

For the text size I can't increase it, I am using the only useful debug overlay engine available with the plugin and it doesn't allow any input on text size. see more about the limitations below (also... menu float/jitter).

for the order of givetypes, that's the order of the flags actually are in the code, so it;s easy to code it that way rather than hard coding everything for every mod. Health givetype is still available in every mod, I can remove it from dod:s if you like. I can order the waypoint types by importance next release if you'd like to do that, let me know which waypoint types you think are most important in order and I can use your ranking.

for the menu float/jitter, I can't help that, that is a debug overlay engine issue, and this is the only way I can display a menu like this in the plugin. I added some correction cvars to suit your framerate, you'd need to find these values yourself. Look at these two cvars and tweak their values a little to make it look better on your system

rcbot_menu_update_time1
rcbot_menu_update_time2

the debug hud command doesn't use the same method as the waypoint menu, it just refreshes every second, cos if I refreshed it any quicker you'd just get a messy trail of words.

the debug overlay engine does allow text to be displayed on the screen rather than point in the game, however they are very limited and don't allow colours or even multiple lines. so you'd be left with a menu entirely on one line.

Showing where the bot is in red would be good.

The reason for making some waypoints invisible or only showing others is so that you can only focus on one waypoint type, e.g. in TF2 you might have many defends, snipers, sentry points , tele exists etc at the same area with big radii so it would be difficult to see them all altogether and change their properties. Maybe its not so useful in dod:s because there aren't so many waypoint types for it like that.

for the back/menu button, originally I had it the way you said however I preferred it the other way (the way it is now) so I guess it's a preference thing and I could add a cvar to reverse it.


Bear in mind I have to code all this with the limitations in the SDK for plugins, to be honest the SDK is piss poor for plugins.
seems more like a rant I'm afraid due to the source SDK , I don't want to blame my tools but with even poor bot support having to hack my way in to getting bots to work, I feel like ranting about it !

Posted by: madmax2 May 24 2013, 04:05 AM

Thanks for the detailed response/info... smile.gif

QUOTE

Bear in mind I have to code all this with the limitations in the SDK for plugins, to be honest the SDK is piss poor for plugins.
seems more like a rant I'm afraid due to the source SDK , I don't want to blame my tools but with even poor bot support having to hack my way in to getting bots to work, I feel like ranting about it !

Heh heh, rant away, I can only imagine some of the frustrations you encounter. Heck, steam alone frustrates me...

Oh, I forgot about the waypoint type colors (rainbow), I think you did mention that before... rolleyes.gif

I'll try the cvars, to tweak the jitter, good tip...

QUOTE

the debug overlay engine does allow text to be displayed on the screen rather than point in the game, however they are very limited and don't allow colours or even multiple lines. so you'd be left with a menu entirely on one line.

Is this feasable, getting all the debug info on one line at the top or bottom of the screen? I think I would be okay with that...? If possible?

QUOTE

for the back/menu button, originally I had it the way you said however I preferred it the other way (the way it is now) so I guess it's a preference thing and I could add a cvar to reverse it.

Heh heh, well I'm not sure if its worth the effort for one person, but I think I would like it better reversed from your preference. Maybe because I'm right handed??? wink.gif

QUOTE

Health givetype is still available in every mod, I can remove it from dod:s if you like. I can order the waypoint types by importance next release if you'd like to do that, let me know which waypoint types you think are most important in order and I can use your ranking.

Ok, I'll try to come up with something for the order.... Then others can pick it appart if they want to (give thier ideas).... And if health is not needed in dods (i'm new to dods, so i'm not sure about this), may as well remove it, or put it at the end of the list, if it's not hard to do...

I think some of the other waypointers should give some input too, especially on things like changing the debug bot hud to a single line, fixed to the screen, if its doable??

Thanks Cheeseh,

max

Posted by: genmac May 24 2013, 04:18 AM

QUOTE
Bear in mind I have to code all this with the limitations in the SDK for plugins, to be honest the SDK is piss poor for plugins.
seems more like a rant I'm afraid due to the source SDK , I don't want to blame my tools but with even poor bot support having to hack my way in to getting bots to work, I feel like ranting about it !


Oh man, I'm no programmer but I can definitely feel your pain here and it's awesome you managed to give bot support especially to hl2dm and dods. I get the feeling that valve is starting to loose interest on the modding community where in fact without this mods people won't buy their games that has good mods/plugins in them. God help us once they start releasing DLC's LoL!

Anyway I'm not using the menus too much lately and my mannerism opening the menu has been change or stopped and just type out what I needed so can't really say much about the new menu well wasn't using it that much even before but it will surely help beginners.

Posted by: madmax2 May 24 2013, 04:27 AM

Hey genmac,

What do you think about changing the debug bot hud to single line, fixed to the screen? If it's doable? Does it bother you having it move around the screen like it is now???

Posted by: Cheeseh May 24 2013, 05:03 AM

QUOTE(madmax2 @ May 24 2013, 05:27 AM) *

Hey genmac,

What do you think about changing the debug bot hud to single line, fixed to the screen? If it's doable? Does it bother you having it move around the screen like it is now???


hmm thanks for your suggestions anyway! Just a bit of code about this. This is the api which can be used for the screen

CODE

    virtual void AddScreenTextOverlay(float flXPos, float flYPos,float flDuration, int r, int g, int b, int a, const char *text) = 0;


the positions are 0.0 to 1.0 (0% - 100% of the screen size)
the rest are self explanatory.
but take a look at the one I use

CODE

    virtual void AddTextOverlayRGB(const Vector& origin, int line_offset, float duration, int r, int g, int b, int a, const char *format, ...) = 0;


I can specify which line, and the colour of each line, which is useful for waypoint types, I can also format the text, whereas the previous one I have to format it myself


Posted by: genmac May 24 2013, 07:16 AM

QUOTE(madmax2 @ May 24 2013, 04:27 AM) *

Hey genmac,

What do you think about changing the debug bot hud to single line, fixed to the screen? If it's doable? Does it bother you having it move around the screen like it is now???

Hehe I don't really use that...I just go for the obvious. laugh.gif
I can't even seem to recall the exact command for that so plz do tell me
so I can check it out.


@Cheeseh...
wpt menu is definitely way way way better now that I figured it out how to use it.
Probably need some detailed explanation for first time users who might forget to stand or touch a wpt
first to make the menu work.

Posted by: madmax2 May 24 2013, 05:19 PM

QUOTE

cheeseh:
I can specify which line, and the colour of each line, which is useful for waypoint types, I can also format the text, whereas the previous one I have to format it myself

Oh okay, sounds like you allready did it the best way possible, dang source sdk limits and all... blink.gif

QUOTE

genmac:
Hehe I don't really use that...I just go for the obvious.
I can't even seem to recall the exact command for that so plz do tell me
so I can check it out.

Sure... here you go... smile.gif

First use "rcbot debug bot botname"

Then use "rcbot debug hud 1" to enable the hud on botname

QUOTE

genmac:
wpt menu is definitely way way way better now that I figured it out how to use it.
Probably need some detailed explanation for first time users who might forget to stand or touch a wpt
first to make the menu work.

Actually, it can be activated without touching a wpt (this is new I believe), then you can run over to the wpt you want to edit. Then over to another wpt you want to edit without exiting the menu, and so on... Which is a very nice feature I forgot to mention above... smile.gif

Posted by: genmac May 25 2013, 04:51 AM

Yeah the new wpt menu is a heaven sent compared to the old one.
But I still want a solid block givetype thing hehe.

Posted by: madmax2 May 26 2013, 12:33 AM

QUOTE

Cheeseh:

I can order the waypoint types by importance next release if you'd like to do that, let me know which waypoint types you think are most important in order and I can use your ranking.



Ok, here is the waypoint menu flags order I came up with for dods:

Waypoint Flags

First page
1. noaxis
2. noallies
3. defend
4. sniper
5. machinegun
6. crouch
7. prone
8. jump

[edit] I allready thought of a change.. I reversed #1 & #2, I think those should be the same order as they appear in the game & rcbot... allies then axis... so I swapped them.... rolleyes.gif

Second page
1. unreachable
2. ladder
3. fall
4. capture
5. bombs
6. bomb to open
7. breakable
8. openslater

Third page - These appear to be for tf2 or hldm2 and may not be needed??? But leave any you think could be useful for dods now, or in the future....

area only - tf2 only? for areas that become available later, via script?
waitopen - tf2 only ... req script?
lift - tf2 & hldm2? I suppose there could besome dods map that has a functioning lift???

Of coarse 9 & 0 are reserved for back & next....

Here was my thinking on the first & second pages.. Initially it was order of high use & group like items together. On the first page in particular, I tried to add speed so you can move left to right and quickly add multiple flags. I had jump at 1 or 3 at one point, but think it is less likely to be combined with other flags.

So, if you like to give multiple flags for prone/sniper/mg, its either 1,4,5,7 or 2,4,5,7. I put defend at 3 next to noallies/noaxis just because I think defend is used more...

Crouch & prone could be either way I suppose, maybe some of you would prefer prone right under mg? I even had it that way at one point, with sniper right above it, swapped with mg. But for some reason my brain seems to be wired to think sniper then mg in that order and crouch then prone. Might be because of my key binds, heh heh? We could move prone up a slot if anyone thinks that would be better. I suppose one could over think this, it's harder than I thought it would be, and there are different ways it could be done...

With the second page, I just tried to group simular items and put high use at the top. I wanted openslater close to breakable and bomb to open. I figure unreachable is fairly high use, but are usually added later in the waypoint process and don't need a team flag, so it ended up on this page.

So nows the time for input if any other waypointers have different ideas? I think this is a good order, but maybe something could be better, and am open to changes... wink.gif

Hope I didn't forget anything... tongue.gif
max

Posted by: genmac May 26 2013, 01:55 AM

Max listing looks a lot more organized.

Does the capture givetype truly forces the bots now to capture an area even if it ain't auto detected?

Posted by: chezman May 29 2013, 08:57 PM

My only suggestion would be support for the insurgency mod

Posted by: genmac May 30 2013, 04:07 AM

QUOTE(chezman @ May 29 2013, 08:57 PM) *

My only suggestion would be support for the insurgency mod

http://www.moddb.com/mods/insurgency
Hmmm mod seems dead but looks cool.

Posted by: chezman May 30 2013, 04:31 AM

People still play it and it's still really fun.

Posted by: madmax2 Jun 15 2013, 06:58 PM

Hey cheeseh,

A few rcbot2 feature questions/requests... tongue.gif

1. Do you plan to add an autowaypoint option? I really like the way it works in rcbot1. It would speed up the task of doing the main routes in dods, leaving more time to setup attack/defend points, and refine the waypoint.

2. Could you add audio feedback for add/delete waypoints and create/remove paths, like in rcbot1? Not sure if others would like it, but I find it really helps....

3. Do you think a "stay close to" givetype/tag would be useful? I havn't needed it yet, but there have been places I could of used it, but I used crouch instead. I haven't done any ladders yet, so i'm not sure about this, but it might help with the issue genmac was talking about with ladders? With rcbot1, it really helps with tight right angle approaches to ladders (free standing ladders too, so they don't get behind them so much), using 3 wpts at the bottom of the ladder, something like this at the bottom:

CODE
NWP--SCT  (extreme example, usually more than 90 degrees)
      |
     NWP
      |
     LWP

It's useful for other things on rcbot1, too... (difficult jumps, pulling bots closer to wpts, tight & problem doors, etc)

4. Oh, and thanks for your work on the waypoint menu smile.gif... Is there any way you can keep next/back or back/next on 9 & 0, reserve those slots for them? They change depending on the number of items in the menu...

Or

[edit] Just had an idea about this, it might work good to move next/back to 1 & 2, then shift everything 2 slots. Then they would be right above the movement keys. Just for the menus that have multiple pages of course... Would that make it easier to keep them in the same slots from page to page? What do you think?

Later,
max

Posted by: Cheeseh Aug 1 2013, 01:32 PM

QUOTE(madmax2 @ Jun 15 2013, 07:58 PM) *

Hey cheeseh,

A few rcbot2 feature questions/requests... tongue.gif

1. Do you plan to add an autowaypoint option? I really like the way it works in rcbot1. It would speed up the task of doing the main routes in dods, leaving more time to setup attack/defend points, and refine the waypoint.

2. Could you add audio feedback for add/delete waypoints and create/remove paths, like in rcbot1? Not sure if others would like it, but I find it really helps....

3. Do you think a "stay close to" givetype/tag would be useful? I havn't needed it yet, but there have been places I could of used it, but I used crouch instead. I haven't done any ladders yet, so i'm not sure about this, but it might help with the issue genmac was talking about with ladders? With rcbot1, it really helps with tight right angle approaches to ladders (free standing ladders too, so they don't get behind them so much), using 3 wpts at the bottom of the ladder, something like this at the bottom:

CODE
NWP--SCT  (extreme example, usually more than 90 degrees)
      |
     NWP
      |
     LWP

It's useful for other things on rcbot1, too... (difficult jumps, pulling bots closer to wpts, tight & problem doors, etc)

4. Oh, and thanks for your work on the waypoint menu smile.gif... Is there any way you can keep next/back or back/next on 9 & 0, reserve those slots for them? They change depending on the number of items in the menu...

Or

[edit] Just had an idea about this, it might work good to move next/back to 1 & 2, then shift everything 2 slots. Then they would be right above the movement keys. Just for the menus that have multiple pages of course... Would that make it easier to keep them in the same slots from page to page? What do you think?

Later,
max


hey madmax sry for the late reply, finally did some work today with rcbot2

autowaypointing
I took the old autowaypoint code and fit it into rcbot2 with extra stuff, it works great smile.gif

The bot will automatically add sniper points when you kill someone using a sniper rifle from afar.

It will automatically add sentry points / tele points in tf2 when you place a sentry/teleporter and flag/capture points when picking up the flag or capturing.

I'm not so sure stay close to waypoints would be too useful, I could just add code to make bots wait for a sec before they go to a ladder waypoint, shouldn't be difficult to do

I was playing a map with no waypoints, never had to use any waypoint commands, just autowaypoint and play the map myself for a bit, then the bots were off capturing flags and building sentries etc in tf2

waypoint sounds
I also added waypoint sounds, just like rcbot1

waypoint menu
as for the waypoint menu, i've still to add that option.

sprinting
I've also fixed bots sprinting in dod:s

Posted by: genmac Aug 1 2013, 05:14 PM

QUOTE(Cheeseh @ Aug 1 2013, 01:32 PM) *

sprinting
I've also fixed bots sprinting in dod:s


That one really took my attention...hope to test it soon.
Btw how about hl2dm bot sprints? It's still kinda subtle there but they do sprint a little but not long enough.

Posted by: madmax2 Aug 1 2013, 09:22 PM

Hey Cheeseh,

Yeah, all of it sounds good, especially the autowaypointing part, which is very cool:

QUOTE
Cheeseh:
I was playing a map with no waypoints, never had to use any waypoint commands, just autowaypoint and play the map myself for a bit, then the bots were off capturing flags and building sentries etc in tf2


Sounds like, I could be out of a job, heh heh.... wink.gif

I guess i'll just pile on another request (actually more of a reminder or repeat request). I'm not sure about TF2, but in DODs I think it would be good to have bots face yaw on defend wpts, instead of the flag. It often seems better to place defend wpts in front of the flag instead of behind it (or in both locations). I'd like to control which way they face in DODs, so they can see the enemy approaching better. Doe's that make sence to you?? I think genmac wants this too?...

Anyways, thanks for the new improvements, and I look forward to trying them out... smile.gif

max

Posted by: genmac Aug 2 2013, 02:45 AM

Auto wpt is very usable on wider open space maps but manual placement of wpt and paths still is the most optimize way to wpt the bot less cpu usage as well I think since I wpt the bot in a more straight forward manner and no over lapping paths unless I really need some that way bot have less paths to choose from just the ones that truly needed. smile.gif

And yeah hehe the defend wpts...as suggested if still possible just to make them face where the yaw is directed.

Also a Force Capture wpt so bots can capture areas where the flag is somewhere else unreachable by bots just like this map...dod_rouen...the flag was way way up had to make them crouch and circle around to cap it. I connected the elevated capture wpt so bots knows it's there but on
dod_hill_classic....the auto gen capture wpt inside the fortress is nowhere to be found so hope you can create a force cap wpt soon.

Posted by: madmax2 Aug 2 2013, 06:22 AM

QUOTE(genmac @ Aug 1 2013, 07:45 PM) *

Auto wpt is very usable on wider open space maps but manual placement of wpt and paths still is the most optimize way to wpt the bot less cpu usage as well I think since I wpt the bot in a more straight forward manner and no over lapping paths unless I really need some that way bot have less paths to choose from just the ones that truly needed. smile.gif

Hi genmac,

I agree with what you are saying, manual placement is most efficient use of CPU, and I don't like double paths either... But, Cheeseh has the autowaypoint function working pretty good in rcbot1, so you might be pleasantly surprized at how well it can work... With rcbot1, if you keep moving & plan where you are going, you won't get double paths very often. And with audio feedback, you can know where to stop moving, back track onto the placed waypoints and it won't drop new ones. Yeah, I was mainly thinking of using this for the main pathways in a map. But, rcbot1 autowpt works well in narrow places too, if you can keep moving. I usually don't use autowpt in tight places, though... On many rcws, i didn't use it at all, but then I started using it for parts of maps, and have found it to be very useful... smile.gif

rcbot2 autowaypoint sounds more advance than rcbot1, with some auto givetypes. So I'm very curious to see how well it works in rcbot2, I think it will be a good tool to have... smile.gif

max

Posted by: Cheeseh Aug 2 2013, 08:36 AM

QUOTE(genmac @ Aug 2 2013, 03:45 AM) *

Auto wpt is very usable on wider open space maps but manual placement of wpt and paths still is the most optimize way to wpt the bot less cpu usage as well I think since I wpt the bot in a more straight forward manner and no over lapping paths unless I really need some that way bot have less paths to choose from just the ones that truly needed. smile.gif

And yeah hehe the defend wpts...as suggested if still possible just to make them face where the yaw is directed.

Also a Force Capture wpt so bots can capture areas where the flag is somewhere else unreachable by bots just like this map...dod_rouen...the flag was way way up had to make them crouch and circle around to cap it. I connected the elevated capture wpt so bots knows it's there but on
dod_hill_classic....the auto gen capture wpt inside the fortress is nowhere to be found so hope you can create a force cap wpt soon.


You shouldn't need to add another waypoint type. With the latest version of the bot all you should be able to do is add a capture waypoint manually and give it the correct area. Remove any other capture points with the same area. Then restart the round. If all goes well the bots should use that waypoint as the capture waypoint for the flag of the area you gave it.

btw the sprinting is still very sporadic in dod:s, can't seem to get it to last for more than a split second, but I can see they ARE sprinting

Posted by: Root Aug 4 2013, 12:59 PM

Hi Cheeseh!
Good to know that RCBot is still under development and developer is active!
I'd like to request a few things in DoD:S. Those are should not be hard to implement (I already tried, and a few of those are working, but not properly sometimes). Seems like too many random seed are used in code biggrin.gif

I will try to make a video when I'll have more time, so it would be easier to you to understand what I meant.
Thank you so much and keep up good work! It's appeciated.

Posted by: madmax2 Aug 5 2013, 12:26 AM

Hey Root,

Lots of good feedback... Have you edited any of the bots profiles? If not, try turning up some of the settings on all of the profiles, or get genmac's profiles. The default profiles are set to low on many of them... Braveness needs to be higher than the defaults, it will reduce the proneing a lot. Also, other settings will help sniper accuracy... Some of the other issues may improve too?

I'm not sure, but I think I remember reading the backwards running was some what by design, bots keep looking behind, so it's harder to ambush them from behind. The profile settings may reduce this too? Try the profiles and see if it seems better or not... At one point I thought the waypoint yaw had something to do with this, but I can't really see a difference when bots are on normal waypoints, so i don't think waypoint yaw effects backwards running.

Here is an example from one of genmac's profiles. I have all my profiles turned up to this. Some settings can be higher I believe...

# Bot Profile id = 3 : generated by RCBot2 Launcher
name = allies3
visionticks_clients = 2
visionticks = 40
pathticks = 40
braveness = 99
aimskill = 99
sensitivity = 10
team = 2
class = 2

Get genmac's profiles from this post:
http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1761&view=findpost&p=11582

And take a look at this...
http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1763

btw, your english isn't bad at all, it's better than many of us yanks... biggrin.gif

@Cheeseh
I think it would be a good idea to turn up the settings in the profiles before the next full release, the proneing really doesn't seem bad to me, if the profile settings are turned up... smile.gif This seems to keep returning as a common complaint....

Btw, its good to hear capture wpts/areas are fixed... smile.gif

max

Posted by: Cheeseh Aug 5 2013, 02:13 AM

QUOTE(madmax2 @ Aug 5 2013, 01:26 AM) *


Btw, its good to hear capture wpts/areas are fixed... smile.gif

max


Cheers root for the suggestions

As for the capture wpt areas, what I mean is this should work with the current version. So try it out smile.gif If it doesn't then I need to fix sth.

Posted by: madmax2 Aug 5 2013, 05:27 AM

QUOTE(Cheeseh @ Aug 4 2013, 07:13 PM) *

Cheers root for the suggestions

As for the capture wpt areas, what I mean is this should work with the current version. So try it out smile.gif If it doesn't then I need to fix sth.

Hey genmac,

How u been man... smile.gif I guess we need to test the capture/flag out again... Did you try as cheeseh suggests? I think set capture wpt to same area as flag, no connected path between them, restart map, etc...

[edit] Guess I just missed you... Well I'll try it out soon anyways....

wink.gif
max

Posted by: Root Aug 5 2013, 09:11 AM

Thanks for the tip about profiles!
I've changed both aimskill and visionticks. Seems like bots are react way faster than in previously, and they finally won a few rounds on dod_donner map, even when capturing last CP is hard.
CPU usage was really increased! I guess its caused by visionticks. So I changed it to 73 and its working like a charm on full 32 slot server.
Bots are working so far, but I found noticeable lag:
On dod_jagd map (when axis are running out of spawn area and picking explosives automatically) server is having lag spikes until bots leaves dod_bomb_dispencer area. I have no idea why this is happening (maybe increased aimskill or visionticks or even amount of bots at all?).
If RCBot is using any hook to check whether or not bot is having a TNT, I'd recommend to disable it at all. There are no better way to check TNT than checking 4th slot in player's inventory (next after grenade one). biggrin.gif

Posted by: Cheeseh Aug 5 2013, 09:18 AM

QUOTE(Root @ Aug 5 2013, 10:11 AM) *

Thanks for the tip about profiles!
I've changed both aimskill and visionticks. Seems like bots are react way faster than in previously, and they finally won a few rounds on dod_donner map, even when capturing last CP is hard.
CPU usage was really increased! I guess its caused by visionticks. So I changed it to 73 and its working like a charm on full 32 slot server.
Bots are working so far, but I found noticeable lag:
On dod_jagd map (when axis are running out of spawn area and picking explosives automatically) server is having lag spikes until bots leaves dod_bomb_dispencer area. I have no idea why this is happening (maybe increased aimskill or visionticks or even amount of bots at all?).
If RCBot is using any hook to check whether or not bot is having a TNT, I'd recommend to disable it at all. There are no better way to check TNT than checking 4th slot in player's inventory (next after grenade one). biggrin.gif


the bots check if they have tnt by checking the weapons they have, it's pretty quick

Posted by: genmac Aug 6 2013, 10:24 AM

QUOTE(madmax2 @ Aug 5 2013, 05:27 AM) *

Hey genmac,

How u been man... smile.gif I guess we need to test the capture/flag out again... Did you try as cheeseh suggests? I think set capture wpt to same area as flag, no connected path between them, restart map, etc...

[edit] Guess I just missed you... Well I'll try it out soon anyways....

wink.gif
max

hehe miss you to bro...Ok I've tried that out at rouen seems working but their less aggressive on capturing the dry fountain with the flag on top compared to the connected auto gen cap flag.

Will try it on dod_wn71 but the first cap is area 0 so hope it works much better.
edit...
nope didn't work for me...bot's didn't even use the cap wpts after 2 rounds...so the auto gen cap wpts still are more effective.

Posted by: Cheeseh Aug 6 2013, 02:08 PM

QUOTE(genmac @ Aug 6 2013, 11:24 AM) *

hehe miss you to bro...Ok I've tried that out at rouen seems working but their less aggressive on capturing the dry fountain with the flag on top compared to the connected auto gen cap flag.

Will try it on dod_wn71 but the first cap is area 0 so hope it works much better.
edit...
nope didn't work for me...bot's didn't even use the cap wpts after 2 rounds...so the auto gen cap wpts still are more effective.


there should only be 1 waypoint for each cap. If there are more, it will only use one

Posted by: madmax2 Aug 6 2013, 06:10 PM

I guess you guys may of seen this, but just in case you didn't, here are my 2 posts on capture wpts...

http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=1793&view=findpost&p=12182

maybe I shouldn't of moved them? heh heh, I donno? rolleyes.gif

I had an idea about the fortress cap area on hill_classic I will check on today, but it may or may not make a difference? If it does, i'll let you know.... wink.gif

max

Posted by: genmac Aug 7 2013, 01:52 AM

YEah read those hehe...but when the flag is way too distant, tagged cap wpt seems ignored most of the time but I'll re-check again seem I forgot to do some other things.

Posted by: Septien Aug 7 2013, 02:35 PM

Hi Max and Genmac,

Sorry I couldn't post before, I had some domestic issues, anyway, I looked at your modified wpts for dod_classic_hill and I was very happy to see that bots capture flags perfectly inside the bunkers without needing a connection to the flag. Inside the fortress however, bots will try to capture the capture point without it being connected to the flag BUT they will NOT wait to cap it. I tried everything even erasing all waypoints inside the capture zone and leaving just 1 (the closest) to the flag with and without connecting it to the flag and removing any tags other than a capture one but still had the same result: bots don't wait for a second man to capture the flag. It's way better than previous rcbot versions since bots DO recognize the capture point, they even wave their hands like telling the rest to help capture it but again, they won't wait!

Now, I improved severely the waypoints in that capture zone and still left mgs and sniper wpts because that way mgs and snipers will try more often getting to that particular caputre zone rather than just staying forever sniping and camping. I also added multiple caputre waypoints, and some times, specially if they manage to break the breakable wall, they will go to a different capture wpt. It would seem like if they were working in teams etc.

Perhaps Cheeseh could still perfect/improve the flag/capture issue specially when there is a greater gap between both.

Anyway, I have just updated the waypoints in the Dod_hill_classic thread and in the Rcbot downloads page, let me know what you think, I'm still waiting for CharlestonN to tweak it for us. Genmac, see if you can have CharlestonN pull in that flag for us in WN71


Septien

Posted by: madmax2 Aug 7 2013, 06:11 PM

Hey Guys,

I got side-tracked yesterday on some other things (one being svencoop), and I didn't get a chance to do anything with dods... sorry... sad.gif

Yeah, that fortress capture seems to be a special problem? I saw one bot occasionally hold there, maybe as long as 20 seconds, not sure, but it never was long enough, or frequent enough. Most of the time they hold only a few seconds there.

In this case, for this map, I'm not sure if there is anything cheeseh can do from the coding side to make the bots be able to cap this under normal game play conditions, short of making bots stay permanent inside a capture zone? And I'm not sure if that would be good for other maps?

Septien's/genmac's previous "fixes" here worked quite well, the proneing, circle pattern, sniper/mg, etc. And the proneing is just what most human players would do anyways... Maybe cheeseh can tweak the hold time for another 30 seconds, that may help some, but they only hold intermitantly at this one location, so that won't totally fix it.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, in the end, it may have to be a waypoint solution for these special cases? Thanks Septien for the updated rcw, I will check it out sometime soon... I want to have a look at roeun too, think i'll check that out before WN-71 final, roeun was such a good game-play map for the first dod, i really liked it. smile.gif

max

Posted by: Septien Aug 7 2013, 06:55 PM

Hi Max,

Probably like you mentioned, it's not worth fixing since it's only for just a couple of maps out there! One of the 2 tweaks I did request to CharlestonN was to move the fortress flag right in the middle next to the pole. And yes, I agree that it does look realistic for bots to crouch/prone in special danger zones like this one.

Septien

Posted by: genmac Aug 8 2013, 03:05 AM

For dod_hill if you like I can just simply edit the capture point entity to 1 man cap and bring it down to 5 or 7 secs cap time...or keep the 2 man cap but bring it down to 1 or 2 secs cap time since sometimes it takes time for another allies to help out...what do you think?

Or ask Charles to simply put a flag at ground level as well for wn71 first bunker.

Posted by: madmax2 Aug 8 2013, 04:30 AM

Hey Guys,

Maybe before modifying entities, or the map, you might want to try this first??? wink.gif

Septien, I haven't had a chance to look at your new rcw yet, so I don't know what changes you made, and it was working quite well before, so this is just a demonstration of an idea I had the other day. It's still a waypoint "fix", you can add it to your waypoint if you want to, or not. It's basicly a forced "fix" that may enhance what you have already done?

The idea that I wanted to check out was, that the problem might have something to do with other goals interfering with the fortress goal. I thought it might be the wall bomb plant, but it wasn't. So I started reducing the bots options. The more I reduced them, the better they got at capping the fortress. Bots, when they can't cap the first time, tend to look for other goals it seems, so they run out to "dead ends" lets say, then return to the fortress later...

Well I hacked up the test rcw from the other day some more, and you can see the result either by adding just 2 allied rifflemen, or you can try 3 allies & 2 axis, or a full game... If the bots options are limited, then they hold much better in the cap zone. Although you can sometimes still see them leave the cap area, but they can't go far, so they return quickly. But they do cap the fort much faster now, with just one capture waypoint there.

Basicly, I ended up just forcing allied bots to stay inside the fortress once there, they won't retreat. Its now a oneway path for the allies into the fort, and 2 way for the axis, its in the tunnel under the tower... Now the allies can't see any other goals once they get in there, just the fort capture area. This obviously won't be an option in all situations, but does help here...

If you make it a 2 way path again, you can see what they do when allies are limited to the area just outside the wall, and the bunkers. They were still going out to the bomb plant area, even though I had allready removed it, so I removed the opens later path there too, and paths over the wall for allies. also removed the opens later path thru the destroyable wall. I think it's better than the last test rcw, but not as good as the forced tower/tunnel. They still get into some of that tag team running around the fort thing...

So it's a hacked up waypoint for test/demonstration only. I removed things on the outside of the fortress that probably didn't need removal. If you try anything out of this mess of a post tongue.gif , try adding the forced oneway allied path into the tower/tunnel, I think it will help a lot (btw, you will have to make it oneway for allies at the destroyable wall too). You don't need to remove the other things you have already done, that helps them cap the fort. smile.gif

max

Posted by: Septien Aug 9 2013, 01:52 AM

Hi Max and Genmac and everyone hehe,

@Max
I thought of that before too but I didn't go for it since the main problem or challenge for Allies is mainly to get to the capture zone without getting killed immediately since they can "hold" or should I say... be forced to hold a bit longer by going prone, crouching around a path, camping etc. which again is part of the challenge the map offers which I think all of us enjoy. Of course it sounds like a good option since its more likely that they will probably capture the flag more frequently but I felt a bit like cheating on the Axies hehe.

@Genmac
Having a one man capturing the fortress flag sounds interesting just to see how it would affect the gameplay perhaps it would make it more even for both sides. If you could tweak it just as an experiment...maybe we could ask CharlestonN if he wouldnt mind. etc.

I will still try your wpts Max... see how they work... btw try to grab my latest update and we can all work with it... it has other changes ... hope you like them...

I have just downloaded dod_rouen... that map brings quite some memories too! I was also happy to see that mappers are showing in.... I just hope that they can appreciate the importance of having their maps brought to life by waypointing them and thus can strive to make them full compatible with rcbot!

Anyway, my fellow waypointers.... its great to be part of such a great community here.

Yours truly,
Septien

Posted by: genmac Aug 9 2013, 02:02 AM

@Septien....yeah better ask Charles first since he's very active on mapping lately.


@Max...yeah the one way path will do the trick inside the fortress cap.

Posted by: madmax2 Aug 10 2013, 03:31 AM

QUOTE(genmac @ Aug 6 2013, 03:24 AM) *

hehe miss you to bro...Ok I've tried that out at rouen seems working but their less aggressive on capturing the dry fountain with the flag on top compared to the connected auto gen cap flag.

Will try it on dod_wn71 but the first cap is area 0 so hope it works much better.
edit...
nope didn't work for me...bot's didn't even use the cap wpts after 2 rounds...so the auto gen cap wpts still are more effective.

Hey guys,

I think genmac's observation was correct when he said the bots are more aggresive at detected capture wpts. I've spent a lot of time today playing around with different capture wpts on dod_azure. I wanted to get it right before I add in the class wpt types (snipper, defend, etc). I noticed the difference more on re-capping areas. It was really noticable at single player cap areas. I noticed axis running past a cap point on thier side of the map, that allies seem to have no trouble capping. So I moved it to the other side of the armored car, and they did better for a while, recapping it a few times, but seemed to lose interest as the game went on. All testing I did today was with 3vs3 bots, same class.

So i put the capture wpt inside the armored car, as a detected cap wpt, with paths to it from normal wpts on each side. Now the axis will come back to it & re-cap it, faster and more frequent than before.

Now with the 2 man cap at the tank in this map, I wanted bots to cap from more than one side, so the only way to do that is like the armored car, put the cap inside or on top, and connect paths. Well, I can't really see a significant difference on this cap point, between detected and tagged capture wpt. It might be because both were inside and it's hard for them to touch the cap wpt, so they are more persistant, either way? It did seem, before they were all changed to detected caps, that bots kinda prefered going to the detected caps vs the tagged. But i'm not sure about that, I was getting a bit cross-eye-ed by then... tongue.gif Maybe it needs to be one way or the other but not both, all cap points tagged caps or all detected caps, to keep them balanced?

Now another thing I noticed today (which I saw before on sora), was even after making this cap point and a couple others detected caps, bots would still sometimes run past one of thier flags they need to recap, sometimes going to the far end of the map instead of recapping a flag near thier spawn. Now the low bot count I was using today might be exagerating the symptom, because I think they select thier goal at spawn time. And since I only had 3 bots per team, there aren't enough bots for the 5 or 6 goals/flags in the map. So with more bots maybe this would not be much of a problem? But I do remember seeing it on sora, with 7vs7. So I think I'll do what I did on sora, and force bots through the capture zones, for the flags nearest their spawns. Mainly, to increase thier re-cap speed.

Septien:
QUOTE
I have just downloaded dod_rouen... that map brings quite some memories too!


Yeah, i really want to try that map out too, i'd better take a break from wptn and check it out... smile.gif

max

Posted by: genmac Aug 11 2013, 02:25 PM

@max...hehe me too get cross eyed every now and then to lol!
so yeah detected cap wpt seems more reliable compared to just tagged one's.

Posted by: Tzepesch Sep 27 2013, 12:09 PM

For other mods made on Source SDK Base 2xxx you could include some simple installs for the bots.
So they just know how to follow waypoints and use +attack towards enemies. This could be the first step for bots in a lot of other games than CS:S.

Came here because of FA:S and their bots: http://forums.firearms-source.com/threads/16324-FA-S-Bots-Open-Source-Google-Code

Posted by: Cheeseh Sep 27 2013, 02:06 PM

QUOTE(Tzepesch @ Sep 27 2013, 01:09 PM) *

For other mods made on Source SDK Base 2xxx you could include some simple installs for the bots.
So they just know how to follow waypoints and use +attack towards enemies. This could be the first step for bots in a lot of other games than CS:S.

Came here because of FA:S and their bots: http://forums.firearms-source.com/threads/16324-FA-S-Bots-Open-Source-Google-Code


well it would be good to see some other source bots plugin source to see how they work, but this one is just blank, there is no code.

Anyway, with rcbot2 you can edit the rcbot2_mods.ini

mod = CUSTOM
steamdir = <parent game folder>
gamedir = <game folder>
bot = ZOMBIE

Posted by: genmac Sep 27 2013, 02:44 PM

QUOTE(Tzepesch @ Sep 27 2013, 12:09 PM) *

For other mods made on Source SDK Base 2xxx you could include some simple installs for the bots.
So they just know how to follow waypoints and use +attack towards enemies. This could be the first step for bots in a lot of other games than CS:S.

Came here because of FA:S and their bots: http://forums.firearms-source.com/threads/16324-FA-S-Bots-Open-Source-Google-Code


I love FA and it's awesome bot called...Marine bots...it's wpting app is kinda tricky though but manage to make a workable one on tp_dust....lol yeah de_dust for fa haha!

Hope they do make one for FA:S or have rcbot2 support as well in the future.


Btw mp AI is big business again as big companies like activision are incoparating them fully now on black ops 1 (bots can do tdm and ffa only), Black ops 2 - bots plays all game modes and for this year...COD:Ghost has full blown mp bots with some new good stuff to it. So yeah bots are here to stay and will soon rule the world hehe!

Posted by: Emotional Sep 27 2013, 03:55 PM

I have a little suggestion: may be worth to share rcbot_skill on rcbot_allies_skill and rcbot_axis skill? Explain why : on some maps very hard to win, because bots precipitated final point and can't capture it, because respawning bots do not let them do it. But if increase the level of one team and the lower the level of the other, they will be possible to capture. The reverse effect: if you team have 0.1 skill and enemies - 1.0, you can hold down the last point, being surrounded on all sides by enemies (some like a Left4Dead, lol). I think it should not be too difficult in coding. Thanks in advance

Posted by: MarD Aug 19 2014, 06:23 PM

Heyyo,

QUOTE(Cheeseh @ Sep 27 2013, 06:06 AM) *

well it would be good to see some other source bots plugin source to see how they work, but this one is just blank, there is no code.

Anyway, with rcbot2 you can edit the rcbot2_mods.ini

mod = CUSTOM
steamdir = <parent game folder>
gamedir = <game folder>
bot = ZOMBIE

ah that sucks that Firearms Source has no bot support... also... Heyyo people. tongue.gif

I don't play CSS, TF2 or DODS anymore so that's why I've been pretty inactive here. I was thinking it would be neat with my spare PC to host a rcbot2 server on games that could use servers with a bot population like FA:S, Synergy 2 or Nuclear Dawn (Source Engine based stand-alone game) or the recently released stand-alone Source Engine mod... Fistful of Frags (which would be a perfect tdm game for RCBot2).

I know there's Marinebot for FA:S but its last update I think was 2012... which is quite a long time ago, it probably doesn't even work with the latest FA:S updates.

Posted by: madmax2 Aug 21 2014, 07:05 PM

Hey MarD,

Nice to have you drop by... Correct me if i'm wrong, but I thought FoF had bots? Yeah, it would be cool to see support for those games. I think synergy2 & nuclear dawn have been requested before, and Cheeseh suggests setting the bot_mods.ini for zombie bots, but he never gets any feedback on that? Maybe try that & see what happens? But, I guess you will need to make some waypoints too, which should be done on listen server. Maybe I'll get those games sometime, and see if I can make a waypoint, but don't wait for me, I'm slow & to busy right now... wink.gif

Anyways, welcome back... smile.gif

max

Posted by: MarD May 17 2015, 05:15 PM

Heyyo,

So... Black Mesa Source could use some bots and waypointing eh? wink.gif

Otherwise? I'd love to see support for Synergy Coop so I could waypoint the crap outta the campaign. tongue.gif

http://store.steampowered.com/app/17520/

Currently RcBot2 only supports HL2DM, DODS and TF2.

Posted by: Emotional May 18 2015, 09:10 AM

I suggest add function change weapons from the ground. I often seen on the destruction of objects map, when bots change weapons while defuse bomb. But today I saw rocketman with sniper rifle O_o I don't know, how he take Springfield, because I played on dod_dijon, and on this map no destroyable objects. Rcbot version - 0.85.

Screenshot: (you can see specific rocketman's vest)
IPB Image

Posted by: daunknownman2010 May 18 2015, 09:37 AM

QUOTE(MarD @ May 18 2015, 01:15 AM) *

So... Black Mesa Source could use some bots and waypointing eh? wink.gif

Otherwise? I'd love to see support for Synergy Coop so I could waypoint the crap outta the campaign. tongue.gif

I'd like to see Black Mesa having RCBot support too. The bots do work in Synergy but they seem to have problems attacking and have times where they crash the server.

Posted by: YuriFR May 19 2015, 12:06 AM

QUOTE(Emotional @ May 18 2015, 06:10 AM) *

I suggest add function change weapons from the ground.
...
Rcbot version - 0.85.


Hmm ...! Interesting what happened to you, mr. Emotional...

I'm using the latest version (Rcbot2 v0.96 to Dod:Source), and do not know what happened to me ...: I have noticed that my bots do not perform many actions which, in theory, have been implemented in previous versions. See the list:

- My Rc-bots never use secondary weapons (only excluding the rifle-grenades): such as pistols, knives or trench shovels. In the "hand-to-hand fight", I also never witnessed so far a bot from class "assault" kill the opponent with punches...

- Even standing up and on short distance combat, the machine-gunners insists on using their MG-gun (known to have bad accuracy and very high recoil rates), instead of changing to a more suitable option to this confront situation (eg: the pistol)

- They never change/take/ got a different weapon from the ground (eg: when the ammunition finishes)

- In version 0.96, they don't throw more smoke-grenades against MG-gun (or snipers) positions, as previously done (I remember happened to me in early versions)...
In addition, the bots from "Assault" and "Support" classes do not throw more hand-grenades explosive against opponents...

- In this version 0.96, I'm unable to make MG-bot obey my command to deploy the MG-gun in some fixed position nearby, such as a sand barricade, a window, on the floor etc. (as in the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJxU8yp59VU). Also: most times, an MG-gun doesn't obey my command to abandon these types of fixed positions


I wonder if all this is due to a lack of any variable (configuration) in the (my) file "config.ini"...


As soon as I notice more "missing behaviors" (Rcbot2 in Dod:S), I will return to post in the forum. It may happen that other users are experiencing the same issues in v0.96...


Thanks, guys! wink.gif

[I using google-translator, sorry for any misunderstanding...]

Posted by: genmac May 20 2015, 02:18 AM

Our good friend and bot saviour CHeeseh seems super busy with RL lately (and playing gta 5 hehe) so I've pm him about BMS rcbot support let's hope we'll get some response soon.

@YuriFR...you need to edit your bot profiles to make them play better.
Here is an example of my bot profile...

CODE

visionticks_clients = 4
visionticks = 40
pathticks = 40
braveness = 100
aimskill = 100
sensitivity = 12

so those are all the settings I use on all of my profiles...try tweak yours.

Posted by: Emotional May 20 2015, 04:38 AM

QUOTE
- They never change/take/ got a different weapon from the ground (eg: when the ammunition finishes)

I wrote, that this function not work, bots can take weapons only, when they defuse bombs.
QUOTE
In the "hand-to-hand fight", I also never witnessed so far a bot from class "assault" kill the opponent with punches...

I doubled this. But all other functions, that you wrote, working on 0.85.

Posted by: Navton Nov 16 2015, 07:03 PM

Hi! I really like RCbot2, so here is my suggestions:
Bots for TF2 don't attack small, normal and King Skeleton. Make them attack skeletons.
Bots upgrading in Mann vs Machine.
Custom loadout editing.
p.s Im from Russia, so sorry for bad english.

Posted by: Marios Jan 10 2016, 08:42 PM

QUOTE(Navton @ Nov 16 2015, 09:03 PM) *

Hi! I really like RCbot2, so here is my suggestions:
Bots for TF2 don't attack small, normal and King Skeleton. Make them attack skeletons.


Eh, I guess it's possible to set skeletons as enemies - after all they are all tf_zombie entities, if I am not mistaken.

QUOTE(Navton @ Nov 16 2015, 09:03 PM) *

Bots upgrading in Mann vs Machine.


Quite hard to do as of yet, but it's actually possible supposing rcbots can simulate client cmds, but then again, the credits...

QUOTE(Navton @ Nov 16 2015, 09:03 PM) *

Custom loadout editing.


This is one the last things Cheeseh will do, as he will mainly be working on the bots and i don't blame him. You can use other Sourcemod addons like Give Weapon for custom loadouts, although that could perhaps break the AI...

Posted by: PikaCommando Jan 12 2016, 09:56 AM

Any plans for Ricochet support?