Svencoop 4.8 & rcbots crashing, bad crash problem just after adding bots Options

[Cheeseh]

never mind, got them grappling, downloaded a map called sc_grapplejump, the bots managed to do the first jump which was cool.

To do the grapple jump you just need to make the grapple waypoint be looking towards the place to grapple from the previous waypoint. And when the bots reach the grapple waypoint in the air they will let go

edit

As for the egon gun, I'll add a new variable in the weapons config "holdattack" if "holdattack=1" the bots will hold the attack button

Please try this dll

Changes:

new grapple waypoint
bots revive players
bots repair sentries
bots can pick up miniguns again
holding attack if holdattack=1 in weapon config for weapon


http://rcbot.bots-united.com/downloads/rcb...48_release2.zip

[madmax2]

Hey Cheeseh,

Awesome, downloading now... Yes I will try tonite, right after I post some dods waypoints, and eat...

Cool man, thanks...

[w00tguy123]

Please try this dll

Changes:

new grapple waypoint
bots revive players
bots repair sentries
bots can pick up miniguns again
holding attack if holdattack=1 in weapon config for weapon
http://rcbot.bots-united.com/downloads/rcb...48_release2.zip

I tested each of those changes and everything is working great, although I have yet to see a bot repair a turret.

[madmax2]

Yes, the revive works well, I was lying there dead & called medic, and 2 bots came over and fixed me right up ... Whats a good map for sentry repair?

I've tried the grapple wpt, but can't get it working for some reason... The grapples are somewhat horizontal on crystal2, and long distance. I tried a few different setups, but they won't shoot the barnicle gun at all? Tried these patterns, and I forced them to pick up the barnicle gun.

N---N======G

N---J======G

N---G======N

N---N==J====G

N---J==G====N

--- path on ground
=== mid air path
N = normal wpt
J = jump wpt
G = grapple wpt

Nothing I tried was over 45 degrees, most of this was done at almost 0 degrees... They would look but not fire...

I must be doing something wrong, do i need something enabled in my config file?

Maybe i'll try it on a different map tomarrow and see if I can get it to work? Think I'll just do some play testing tonite.

[Cheeseh]

Yes, the revive works well, I was lying there dead & called medic, and 2 bots came over and fixed me right up ... Whats a good map for sentry repair?

I've tried the grapple wpt, but can't get it working for some reason... The grapples are somewhat horizontal on crystal2, and long distance. I tried a few different setups, but they won't shoot the barnicle gun at all? Tried these patterns, and I forced them to pick up the barnicle gun.

N---N======G

N---J======G

N---G======N

N---N==J====G

N---J==G====N

--- path on ground
=== mid air path
N = normal wpt
J = jump wpt
G = grapple wpt

Nothing I tried was over 45 degrees, most of this was done at almost 0 degrees... They would look but not fire...

I must be doing something wrong, do i need something enabled in my config file?

Maybe i'll try it on a different map tomarrow and see if I can get it to work? Think I'll just do some play testing tonite.

you don't need a jump waypoint cos bots will stop moving and try aiming for the grapple waypoint.

should be N---G======N

I'm not on my pc now but have a look at my mspaint depiction.

The normal waypoint and grapple waypoint path must be looking in the same point as where the grapple should hit (the red line). The grapple waypoint is placed where the bot should let go of the grapple.

How long distance is it. If it's very long distance you'll also need to put the grapple waypoint at least at 1/100 length of the jump. which I'd think should be ok!

The algorithm works like this.

1. stop at the normal waypoint
2. look for a func_wall by looking from the start point and go through the grapple point
3. face that func_wall
4. change weapon to grapple
5. primary attack
6. when I reach or pass the grapple waypoint, let go of attack

[Cheeseh]

Btw the turret problem should also be fixed

[madmax2]

Btw the turret problem should also be fixed

Didn't get a chance to check that out yet, but thanks, in advance...

As for the grapples in crystal2, most are in the horizontal plain, and are straight pulls, all the way to the wall. I'll check for func_wall at the grapple point too, to see if that is why they are not fireing. It is a long distance, so maybe they don't see it. Seems these crystal maps are nothing but a trouble for the bots...

I think there are other maps that have straight pull up grapples, too. where player holds the grapple fire until they touch the grappling location. All in crystal2 are like this. So if they let go half way there, it won't work. I'm sure i've seen near vertical pull up grapples in maps too...

6. when I reach or pass the grapple waypoint, let go of attack

Ok, this just sunk in (need more coffee this morning, heh heh). This seems to indicate it will work with grappling locations that are pulls all the way to the grappling point. Cause they won't let go till they have touched or passed... Thats exactly what i wanted...

I just need to get them to fire at it, and it should work...

Anyways, thanks for all the effort you are putting into this, hope you are having fun with it, and it doesn't feel like work...

max

[Cheeseh]

Man just woke up. Heavy sleep .. I made a change to the grapple code which i think is better. I'll upload it soon

[madmax2]

Man just woke up. Heavy sleep .. I made a change to the grapple code which i think is better. I'll upload it soon

Hey Cheeseh,

I typed this up offline before I saw your post... Cool can't wait to check it out...

Here were my thoughts & results with the previous code...

I checked the bots on all the turrets on crystal, and they work perfect now with inactive mounted turrets, cool...

Now players won't have to use the rcbot massive explosion cheat to play this map . I'll have to change the path to the puzzle room back to two way, and see if they will stay good enough to help the player with the puzzle? If so, then this map will be fully playable with bots without cheats, or adding more bots part way though... I think i'll try the pain/death wpt at that wall of fire too, its a "cut by laser" death... P/D wpt might help at the murks broken steam pipe too, it's a "burned up" death or something? No button on that side though, they have to tower-up to get to valve on other side...

I know what the problem is on crystal2 grapple points, none have func_wall, they are all worldspawn, aakkk, it figures....

Is there some way you could make it not require a func_wall nearby? So they just see the grapple wpt as the target?

Then it's up to the waypointer to get it in the right position... Man, these crystal maps sure are a pain... There could be more maps like this, I just don't for sure? I'll check a few maps for grapple locations... See if they are all func_wall....?

It's up to you though, if you want to change it, there is a way to play the map with rcbot teleport cheat... Even with a fix, I probably won't have them doing all the grapples, and the player will still have to do some of them... I did want to mainly have it so players wouldn't have to use the teleport cheat, that was my goal for the rcw...

There were some maps I was able to wpt around grapple points, but now I can put them in if I want to.. Royals2, had one place I was able to tower them up, but grapple would be much better...

Thanks for everthing, especially the crash & turrets fix's....

max

[Cheeseh]

Hey Cheeseh,

I typed this up offline before I saw your post... Cool can't wait to check it out...

Here were my thoughts & results with the previous code...
max

try this one, this version requires adding a 'grapple point' waypoint (which is basically an aiming waypoint) at the place where bots should grapple. These waypoints don't need to be connected to others, they are just markers.

http://rcbot.bots-united.com/downloads/rcb...grapple_upd.zip

[madmax2]

try this one, this version requires adding a 'grapple point' waypoint (which is basically an aiming waypoint) at the place where bots should grapple. These waypoints don't need to be connected to others, they are just markers.

http://rcbot.bots-united.com/downloads/rcb...grapple_upd.zip

Ok, got it, & will try right now.... So, it sounds like this doesn't require func_wall, they now have grapple point to aim at, nice...

Back in a little while....

[madmax2]

Okay, it's working on crystal2, but they seem to let go to early, shortly after they leave the ledge.

On the other side if the canyon, i moved an objective wpt that was positioned between the grapple and the grapple-point out of the way, thought it might be causing a problem, but that didn't work.

Next I moved the grapple wpt closer to the edge, didn't seem to help...

To get them to fire somewhat reliable at this location, i had to do a couple things it seems.

i had to move the grapple-point closer to the grapple wpt, originally it was right on the slime, they were not seeing it there at all. seems they need a bit more range for this location?

also, i tried with different paths across the cavern to different grapple-point positions, usually they would just run off the edge with that, if it was tied to an obj wpt on other side...

Now what I ended up with, i tried with both path and no-path across the canyon, to a normal wpt which is tied to and obj wpt off to the side. The grapple point is not connected to anything at the moment. The path across the canyon seems to be working best, probably cause it helps them face the right way. Its sorta like this:
[edit] This is wrong

CODE

N---G============ GP --N  slime
                       |
                      OBJ

the GP is not connected, it's just beween the grapple and normal wpts that are connected...

Anyways, they fire reliably with this, but can't make it, its a horizontal path, they let go way early.

If I remove the path across the canyon, they don't get any closer, and fire at it far less, standing around, sometimes shooting the BG a each other... So the path across to a normal wpt with obj, seems to help some...

I can send you the rcw if you want to look for yourself, and i can tell you exactly how to get there. It's the third grapple area in the puzzle part...I have bots forced to go there, but you have to do a couple things so they get there on thier own. Or I guess you can teleport them, it might be faster?

max

[edit] I Just attached in case you want to look for yourself? --- Removed, it was wrong....

To noclip there, go out of the cave to the next room, go right over by the BG. then noclip straight down, thats the 3rd grapple area where i have been testing....

[Cheeseh]

I won't be able to look at the moment, as I'm working now, but bear in mind the GP (grapple point) must be practically right in front of the grapple slime where the bot should fire to make it more precise, especially if it's small, and it the previous grapple and normal waypoint must be facing it.

If they let go early, they should only let go when they go past the grapple waypoint, so just moving the grapple waypoint closer to the grapple point should suffice

When I get back I'll make a few edits to make it more reliable

The algorithm now works like this.

1. stop at the normal waypoint
2. fire a traceline from the normal waypoint towards the grapple waypoint. At the end point of the traceline, look for a grapple point within 250 units
3. face the grapple point
4. change weapon to grapple
5. primary attack
6. when I reach or pass the grapple waypoint, let go of attack

[madmax2]

Hey Cheeseh,

I got it working!!! They go across perfectly... With your last post a little bell went off in my head, heh heh... I think it was #2 that helped....

I was putting the grapple wpt at the starting location, instead of at or near the landing zone. Allthough I had to move the grapple-point in front of that to get them to fire (this is fixed with grapple update2, put grapple-point right on the slime, see code), it seems to be beyond thier visibility at the slime... So this is what I have now...

CODE

This is wrong now, it won't work good with grapple upd2

S---N========== GP ==GW--obj  slime

Needs to be like this for upd2, it works perfect now...

S---N============GW    GP slime
                  |
                  |
                 obj or N, as long as it goes to a obj someplace...

Or like this...

S---N--======-GW---N   GP slime

[Edit] The GW usually will work best on, over, or near the ledge you want the bots to land on safely. Bots release the grapple as they pass the GW. Do not connect paths to the GP, it is a marker or target for the bots to aim at.

S = starting area wpt
N = normal wpt
GP = grapple point (no path connections)
GW = grapple waypoint
obj = objective wpt
slime is slime, heh heh...

=== mid air connected path
--- ground connected path

The GP needs to be on or close to the slime now, not connected to any other waypoint.

One of my mistakes was I thought they let go at the grapple-point, but its the grapple waypoint where they let go. So the grapple-point is the top of the pendulem, and the grapple waypoint is any place along the swing path or trajectory where you want them to let go... now I get it, yea....

One thing I notice, is once they got across the canyon, they were constantly shooting back at the grapple-point. This may of been because they had no place to go from there? The wpts dead end there at the objective wpt.

Also, I was trying it at a different location, that is a bit smaller target, and was having a hard time getting them to hit the slime.

Yeah, if you want to tweak it some when you get back from work, go ahead. I'll be gone visiting extended family for a few days into next week, anyways.

This is so cool, bots can grapple now...

I'll be able to update the crystal wpts now, and players won't have to use cheats to play with the bots... Then I can look at other maps to use this in....

max

[Cheeseh]

the grapple point must be precisely on the slime (you can crouch and noclip right up to it and add it)

HEre's an updated dll that fixes a few bugs

http://rcbot.bots-united.com/downloads/rcb...rapple_upd2.zip

Here's my crystal 2 waypoint. you'll need to delete some paths from the other teleport to force bots into the grapple area. But you should be able to see how I did the grapple waypoints.

[madmax2]

the grapple point must be precisely on the slime (you can crouch and noclip right up to it and add it)

HEre's an updated dll that fixes a few bugs

http://rcbot.bots-united.com/downloads/rcb...rapple_upd2.zip

Here's my crystal 2 waypoint. you'll need to delete some paths from the other teleport to force bots into the grapple area. But you should be able to see how I did the grapple waypoints.

Got them & will check them out today, thanks....

Today is the last day, then heading out for the beach tommarow . Hopefully my nephew will have his laptop with him & I can check in a few times...

[madmax2]

I tried the new grapple upd2, it works great now . After the adjustments you made, the grapple-point definately needs to be right on the slime, but they also see it much much better.

I tried your rcw, and at the first grapple area, you got them swinging across perfect, just like tarzan .

They can do the other 2 areas perfect too. And once they get across, they don't seem so eager to keep shooting at the GP. I think thats it, the grapple works great now...

When I get back from the beach, i'll definately be wpt'n some grapple points...

Any other ideas you want to put into the bots?

[Cheeseh]

I tried the new grapple upd2, it works great now . After the adjustments you made, the grapple-point
definately needs to be right on the slime, but they also see it much much better.

I tried your rcw, and at the first grapple area, you got them swinging across perfect, just like tarzan .

They can do the other 2 areas perfect too. And once they get across, they don't seem so eager to keep
shooting at the GP. I think thats it, the grapple works great now...

When I get back from the beach, i'll definately be wpt'n some grapple points...

Any other ideas you want to put into the bots?

well i've gone back to svencoop for a bit cos I've added teleport detection now, i.e. at teleport waypoints, bots would always usually think theres a teleport there but sometimes they are not or are inactive. So bots will only go thorugh teleport waypoints if there's an active teleporter there.

I think i'll have to make bots wait for other bots at teleport waypoints too

also bots can use the flash light now

[w00tguy123]

Cool stuff. I can think of a bunch of maps that use toggled teleports that will benefit from this. Bots not using flashlights always bugged me - it's much easier to see when any player besides you is using one.

Is there anything that could be done to improve bots using ladders? The majority of the time they get stuck at the bottom and never move, and it only takes one bot to stop map progression by getting stuck at the bottom forever. It seems like they get stuck only if their feet are touching something. If they aren't standing on a player or the ground they usually go up just fine.

Edit: Another suggestion - make the bots ignore monster_tentacle? They respawn instantly and infinitely so bots get stuck trying to kill them forever.

[madmax2]

well i've gone back to svencoop for a bit cos I've added teleport detection now, i.e. at teleport waypoints, bots would always usually think theres a teleport there but sometimes they are not or are inactive. So bots will only go thorugh teleport waypoints if there's an active teleporter there.

I think i'll have to make bots wait for other bots at teleport waypoints too

also bots can use the flash light now

Yeah, all of it sounds good, teleport detection, nice ... I'm curious how the flashlight works, bots can detect the low light in a room somehow?


w00tguy123 said:

Is there anything that could be done to improve bots using ladders? The majority of the time they get stuck at the bottom and never move, and it only takes one bot to stop map progression by getting stuck at the bottom forever. It seems like they get stuck only if their feet are touching something. If they aren't standing on a player or the ground they usually go up just fine.

Thats a good observation. If they can jump onto the ladder w/o bouncing off, they usually have no problems... Yeah, ladders can be difficult to wpt, and when bots stick at the bottom, it seems to happen most when bots fall directly on the bottom ladder wpt. I try to minimize this, with non-standard wpt configurations at some ladders... It seems not all ladders are the same...

On ladders, what i do, is start first with the standard 3 wpt config at the bottom, they often need a jump wpt with the newer bots:

Either N--N--L or N--J--L

Often times i use a "stay close to" at the first normal wpt, it helps a lot to slow the bots down, at most all ladders, then they take a running jump onto the ladder:

SCT--J--L

Also, I have found this often works much better at the bottom, with a single ladder wpt at the top:

N--J--N or SCT--J--N <--- no ladder tag on bottom of ladder

Sometimes i've had to use this in tight areas where the ladder seems very sticky, or at some vent ladders it has worked well where bots are crouching up a short ladder inside a vent:

N--N--J at bottom, to a ladder wpt at the top (or crouched-ladder wpt)...

What I have seen, is when more than one bot gets to the bottom of the ladder at the same time, & the second touches the heels of the first bot going up the ladder, & the second bot falls directly on the bottom ladder wpt, he will often be stuck there a while. The N--N--J seems to help with this in tight areas. btw, I never make the ladders paths at the bottom one-way, they are two-way so bots can back up & take another run at it. Forcing bots onto the ladder won't help, it makes jams worst.

Also, i prefer a setting of "config update_ladder_time 0.2", it looks a bit sloppy when they climb or must go down ladders, but i don't think they get stuck as often, they wiggle free better...