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Septien
post May 2 2013, 02:37 PM
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Here are the waypoints sprint/compatible (Rcbot 0.76) for probably my all time favorite Dod and DodS map: dod_hill_classic.

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You can download the map here: http://dods.gamebanana.com/maps/14733

I have included the waypoints here (0.76 compatible): Attached File  dod_hill_classic.zip ( 14.46k ) Number of downloads: 311


A much improved gameplay, Axis will try to defend their base and each of their flags in a more balanced way. Thanks to MadMax2, Allies are able to capture the last waypoint which was impossible since bots can't capture points that are separated from their respective flag. Now with breakable waypoints this map rocks! Only Allies will try to shoot down the Axis' fortress wall.

Lastly, I would recommend having 6 Allies vs 4 Axis. That way it will be way more competitive.
Or play 4 vs 4 but team up with the Allies.

I hope you guys enjoy it, I spent quite some time trying to enhance the gameplay etc.

Pepois
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madmax2
post May 2 2013, 05:34 PM
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Wow, from out of nowhere biggrin.gif , thanks for the waypoint and welcome to the RCbot forums... I remember this map from the first dod v1.3beta era i think it was.... It was one of the first custom maps I played on dod with sturmbot 1.1, I believe... It was a really fun map in those days... I got your rcw, now i'll have to get the map. smile.gif

And please come back, we can always use another waypointer here.... wink.gif
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Septien
post May 3 2013, 12:44 AM
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QUOTE(madmax2 @ May 2 2013, 05:34 PM) *

Wow, from out of nowhere biggrin.gif , thanks for the waypoint and welcome to the RCbot forums... I remember this map from the first dod v1.3beta era i think it was.... It was one of the first custom maps I played on dod with sturmbot 1.1, I believe... It was a really fun map in those days... I got your rcw, now i'll have to get the map. smile.gif

And please come back, we can always use another waypointer here.... wink.gif


Thank you Madmax2, I've been doing waypoints back since Cstrike 1.5 so I've been around. Personally, DodS is my favorite Half-Life2 mod and its a pitty that here in Argentina no one plays it anymore so using bots is just about the only option for me. And working with a great bot such as RCbot2 gets the job done quite well! Having playable bots for this particular map is like a dream come true! I'll try to add more waypoints for other DodS maps as time allows it.

Warm regards

Pepois
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genmac
post May 3 2013, 04:55 AM
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Nice!
Now downloading map and wpts...
Btw as Madmax2 ( aka flash_gordon hehe tongue.gif ) mentioned...Welcome to the forum!


Ok tested it and here's one little wpt flaw:
Axis always get stuck on the second ladder in the corner disrupting the flow of axis bots
as they try and try to get out but couldn't so they go back the longer way out on the other corner with stairs
which kinda helps the allies assault as the axis gets delayed to go back and guard their fortress.
Aside that everything seems very smooth.
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Emotional
post May 3 2013, 06:44 AM
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nice work
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madmax2
post May 3 2013, 07:28 AM
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QUOTE(genmac @ May 2 2013, 09:55 PM) *

Btw as Madmax2 ( aka flash_gordon hehe tongue.gif ) mentioned...Welcome to the forum!

And I where spandex while I waypoint too... tongue.gif
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Septien
post May 3 2013, 05:49 PM
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QUOTE(genmac @ May 3 2013, 04:55 AM) *

Nice!
Now downloading map and wpts...
Btw as Madmax2 ( aka flash_gordon hehe tongue.gif ) mentioned...Welcome to the forum!
Ok tested it and here's one little wpt flaw:
Axis always get stuck on the second ladder in the corner disrupting the flow of axis bots
as they try and try to get out but couldn't so they go back the longer way out on the other corner with stairs
which kinda helps the allies assault as the axis gets delayed to go back and guard their fortress.
Aside that everything seems very smooth.


Hi Genmac,
I accidentally uploaded the wrong set, I have corrected this so there shouldn't be any problems now.

So everyone please feel free to download the "fixed" version on the main thread.

Pepois
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madmax2
post May 3 2013, 09:37 PM
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Thanks for the update, got it... smile.gif btw, if you have other rcw's in the works or plan to do something, you might want to let us know, so we aren't duplicating your efforts.. I'll do the same if i ever get off this flash rcw i keep tinkering with.. heh heh... rolleyes.gif

For now you could post your wpt plans here, but i'm thinking we need to create a specific thread for dods maps that we want to claim, or announce we will be waypointing. It should only be for claiming maps to waypoint, not for other waypointing issues. It probably should be in the dods waypointing section, i guess? What do you guys think, yea or nay on this idea? wink.gif

[edit] maybe it should be in the main rcbot2 waypoints section, as a "dods waypoint request & claim" thread? So new users will find it easier? Not sure which is the best location, I see tf2 requests there....
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madmax2
post May 17 2013, 07:44 PM
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Here is a blast from the past... I went back to check the flags on the original dod_hill from dod v1.3beta mod. I had the old 1.3 maps zipped up, so I loaded it into dod v3.1beta mod which is still on my old PC. I found out in that old version of the map, the flags were not on top of the structures, but in the same plain as the capture areas, which might be instant flag caps, cause the sturmbot wpt didn't have capture wpts next to the flag wpts... Anyways, I took a couple snapshots of the map... laugh.gif

http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/7/14/332...od_hill0001.jpg

http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/7/14/332...od_hill0000.jpg
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madmax2
post May 17 2013, 08:20 PM
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Hey Septien,

Here is the "tweaked" hill_classic rcw you asked for. I was still messing around with it last night, so it has wpts on all the flags, you may want to remove those, except the one on the wall of corse? I would test it both ways, with & without flag wpts, I really had not determined which way was working best yet. With sturmbot, there would be no capture area on the flag itself, just a flag wpt. I tried rcbot's flag wpt, but they didn't seem to react well to it, since it's ment for tf2, i think.... rolleyes.gif

[edit] removed attachment..... Sounds good Septien, will try it out soon, proning those 3 wpts was a good idea... smile.gif
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Septien
post May 17 2013, 08:48 PM
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QUOTE(madmax2 @ May 17 2013, 08:20 PM) *

Hey Septien,

Here is the "tweaked" hill_classic rcw you asked for. I was still messing around with it last night, so it has wpts on all the flags, you may want to remove those, except the one on the wall of corse? I would test it both ways, with & without flag wpts, I really had not determined which way was working best yet. With sturmbot, there would be no capture area on the flag itself, just a flag wpt. I tried rcbot's flag wpt, but they didn't seem to react well to it, since it's ment for tf2, i think.... rolleyes.gif


Thank you so mucho Madmax2!!! I will definitely have a good look at what you mentioned!

Pepois

edited

I have worked with the wpts and updated them both here and in Rcbots main waypoint site using your recomendations, thank you for your time Madmax2, now it works much better! *I added prone waypoints to the 3 waypoints near the pole so allies can spend a bit more time within the area and I did remove the machinegun/sniper/no axies tags on the wpts inside the trenches.

Pepois
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Septien
post May 18 2013, 02:14 AM
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Madmax2,

Here I included the waypoints for this map so you can see yourself bots not capturing any flag except the last one due to unreachable waypoints near the flags. If you can try also to dl the last updated version you will see that I removed just one unreachable waypoint from each flag and now bots can capture them.


Wpts where bots cant capture the first 3 flags: Attached File  dod_hill_classic_uncaptured_flags.rar ( 8.69k ) Number of downloads: 262

Pepois
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genmac
post May 18 2013, 05:06 AM
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here's an idea tip that might help as well...change the capture wpt to a "bombs" wpt and make them start proning or crouching once the cap icons shows up towards it so it takes time for them to reach the bomb wpt thus completing the cap. I think bots are very aggressive on getting to bomb wpts so this might help for making them pursue the undetected caps more efficiently...and kinda simulates that proning thing sturmbot does when it caps flags.

-- Ok tested it ....it didn't work! bot's never stop at the bombs wpts simply bec. there no bombs nearby to validate the wpt so it just went ahead as if it's just a normal wpt.

Anyway seems Max is very busy wpting sora hehe so I tested the updated wpt seems working fine already. Allies can capture all goals in about 2 mins with no axis bothering them. The capture prone wpts definitely helped a lot. Axis no longer stuck out on the second corner ladder. Good work!
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madmax2
post May 18 2013, 06:04 PM
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QUOTE(genmac @ May 17 2013, 10:06 PM) *

Anyway seems Max is very busy wpting sora hehe so I tested the updated wpt seems working fine already. Allies can capture all goals in about 2 mins with no axis bothering them. The capture prone wpts definitely helped a lot. Axis no longer stuck out on the second corner ladder. Good work!

Hey Septien,

Yeah, as genmac said, good work, the proneing idea works well smile.gif . I observed them and played a couple games last night. I played on allied side, even teams, but could not get that last flag in the fortress, it was fun though... It's a bit laggey on my crapy PC... Huge open map + bots + steam = lag for me...

The 3 bunker flags + unreachables behavior is strange, since you can put an unreachable right on the wall flag and it doesn't seem to bother the bots a bit! blink.gif All 4 flags are detected as capture (yellow) when placing a new wpt on them, so i'm not sure what the difference would be, it's a mystery?

Yep, I've been busy with sora. Most all main paths have been done, I'm adding the defensive, ambush and hiding places now. But I've been having more crash problems on this map (sora), not sure what's going on? I tried 3 different rcbot versions, then turned down the in game video settings which may of helped a little? Crashes (to desktop) have been while wpting + bots running, or just spectating bots, not during real game play, which I havn't tried yet. There were quite a few yesterday. So I may post a wip rcw before i'm done, so someone can play test it & check for crashes??

Oh, and I tried toggling rcbot_runplayer_hookonce, no help. Maybe i need to put my house fan on it... laugh.gif

Later Guys,
max
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Septien
post May 18 2013, 09:04 PM
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QUOTE(madmax2 @ May 18 2013, 06:04 PM) *

Hey Septien,

Yeah, as genmac said, good work, the proneing idea works well smile.gif . I observed them and played a couple games last night. I played on allied side, even teams, but could not get that last flag in the fortress, it was fun though... It's a bit laggey on my crapy PC... Huge open map + bots + steam = lag for me...

The 3 bunker flags + unreachables behavior is strange, since you can put an unreachable right on the wall flag and it doesn't seem to bother the bots a bit! blink.gif All 4 flags are detected as capture (yellow) when placing a new wpt on them, so i'm not sure what the difference would be, it's a mystery?

Yep, I've been busy with sora. Most all main paths have been done, I'm adding the defensive, ambush and hiding places now. But I've been having more crash problems on this map (sora), not sure what's going on? I tried 3 different rcbot versions, then turned down the in game video settings which may of helped a little? Crashes (to desktop) have been while wpting + bots running, or just spectating bots, not during real game play, which I havn't tried yet. There were quite a few yesterday. So I may post a wip rcw before i'm done, so someone can play test it & check for crashes??

Oh, and I tried toggling rcbot_runplayer_hookonce, no help. Maybe i need to put my house fan on it... laugh.gif

Later Guys,
max


Hey Max,

Sounds great! I would love to give your Sora a try!

Btw I was trying out the bots in dod_hill_classic last nite too and made some final modifications... I added prone waypoints to all flags so now bot will always capture them once they are inside the bunkers. I also added unreachable waypoints with their corresponding area... I think now I got the hang of it. I have updated all links including the one I did for the sniper map.

If I understood sniper and machine gun waypoints should have the same area as the capture point/flag they are attacking. And unreachable waypoints should have the corresponding area where they are located. I would love if you could take a look at the sniper/machine gun wpts and unreachable wpts and let me know if they are ok.

Pepois
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madmax2
post May 18 2013, 10:13 PM
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QUOTE

If I understood sniper and machine gun waypoints should have the same area as the capture point/flag they are attacking.

Sure, i'll check it out sometime later today. Yes, as a general rule, thats correct, sniper/mg/defend/capture wpts should have the same area as the nearby flag area. As cheeseh said, the flag area is set by the mapper, and rcbot reads this when placing a flag wpt. So, other special wpts in the area should be the same area number.

Now I have been experimenting with this a bit on dod_flash, breaking the rule, by placing different area tags on a few of those in between areas. Trying to get one or 2 bots to move further forward into the map when they get backed up. I have something in the works for flash, a demonstration wpt you might say, but haven't finished it yet... I've had mixed results with it, getting it balanced, but plan to finish & post it...

Now as far as I know, areas on unreachable wpts are not necessary & don't do anything...? Unreachables are simply a marker to help bots locate danger locations (& stimulate grenade throwing), usually from a distance, as i understand them... So, areas on them shouldn't be needed... They are also suppose to block bots from trying to walk to them, but that didn't happen on that one wall flag in this map!! blink.gif

max
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Septien
post May 18 2013, 10:55 PM
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QUOTE(madmax2 @ May 18 2013, 10:13 PM) *

Sure, i'll check it out sometime later today. Yes, as a general rule, thats correct, sniper/mg/defend/capture wpts should have the same area as the nearby flag area. As cheeseh said, the flag area is set by the mapper, and rcbot reads this when placing a flag wpt. So, other special wpts in the area should be the same area number.

Now I have been experimenting with this a bit on dod_flash, breaking the rule, by placing different area tags on a few of those in between areas. Trying to get one or 2 bots to move further forward into the map when they get backed up. I have something in the works for flash, a demonstration wpt you might say, but haven't finished it yet... I've had mixed results with it, getting it balanced, but plan to finish & post it...

Now as far as I know, areas on unreachable wpts are not necessary & don't do anything...? Unreachables are simply a marker to help bots locate danger locations (& stimulate grenade throwing), usually from a distance, as i understand them... So, areas on them shouldn't be needed... They are also suppose to block bots from trying to walk to them, but that didn't happen on that one wall flag in this map!! blink.gif

max

Thank you for the insight Max! Btw, you sure did a hell of a job with dod_flash! I also love that map.

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Cheeseh
post May 18 2013, 11:38 PM
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QUOTE(Septien @ May 18 2013, 11:55 PM) *

Thank you for the insight Max! Btw, you sure did a hell of a job with dod_flash! I also love that map.

Pepois


Hey guys, ive been away for a while and am still in hospital with the wife. Our baby girl was born a few days ago.

Anyway as for unreachables. They are there to help waypoint visibility, which has some usefulness to it:
1. It helps bots know where some enemies shot them and take cover

Some waypoints , eg at bunkers are not visible to the victim because they are behind a bunker.
So the algorithm takes the nearest waypoint visible to both the victim and attacker.
If there is an unreachable just above the bunker, this waypoint will likely be chosen as the attackers location. Bots will take cover from that waypoint by running to the nearest waypoint that is invisible .

2. It helps bots through grenades

When an enemy hides or runs away the bot remembers the waypoint the enemy was last seen. Sometimes this is behind sandbags or through a door. Normally doors are no problem because they are already waypointed and bots can go through them. But if an enemy for eg. Crouches behind a sandbag and is invisible the bot will remember , just as above, using the same algorithm. Normally that would be the best waypoint for a bot to throw a grenade (over the sandbag) as it has more chance of hurting the enemy if the aim is good. If not it would just land in front and the enmy would be shielded by the sandbags

3. They help bots look and dangerous points

Throughout the game , bots update their danger level at every waypoint . Bots look at dangrous waypoints around them (from the paths of the next waypoint they are moving towards) . This might be on a bridge where there is a sniper spot in the far distance to the left or right where bots wouldnt normally look. So stick an unreachable waypoint VISIBLE to both sniper and dangerous waypoints and connect them with a path to the dangerous waypoint only. You will see the path turn red. This will make bots think about looking up to that sniper point
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madmax2
post May 19 2013, 01:11 AM
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QUOTE

Hey guys, ive been away for a while and am still in hospital with the wife. Our baby girl was born a few days ago.

Made Congrats to Cheeseh thread.... post your best wishes there.... biggrin.gif
http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1776
QUOTE

1. It helps bots know where some enemies shot them and take cover

Yeah, I forgot about that, it helps bots find safe areas, where to take cover...

Very informative info on #2 & #3, also. So it helps to have the unreachable visible to both the attacker (sniper) and the target (danger point), draw a path from the danger point to the unreachable near the attackers point. Hard to see points to left & right too... smile.gif
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genmac
post May 19 2013, 06:53 AM
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well hello there Daddy Cheeseh hehe!


I experimented on no unreachables on a fully re-wpted genmac's style wpts tongue.gif for dod_anzio and I'm quite happy with the result...those sniper's at the tower drove me nuts little though but their working atleast 80-90% of the time.

As for dod_hill man I kinda hate what the mapper did on the flags coz their up there but seems the bots are detecting them anyway.

For the undetected one inside the camp adding like 3 noaxis prone defend wpts might help coz it will pull the allies more towards there, hopefully.

Yo max!!! let me try test your sora wpts WIP to check if the map is causing some crashes.
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