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> RCBot2: suggestions, As the topic sez... some suggestions for future RC Bot releases
der.zoomer
post Nov 8 2009, 01:14 PM
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Hej there, I've been around here for a time as guest, and I really like RC Bot2 for TF2.
It works like a charm (most of the time tho...)

And to improve this bot, I have some suggestions here:


Arena Mode:
- Bot check time until capture point is available
else they would all rush to the capture point and stand there
- on my dedicated server (same binaries) they dont seem to capture points, even theyre doing it on a listen server with SAME waypoints and scripts

Snipers:
- make them sound sensitive to visible players again, they just stand on their sniper pathnodes and dont move/shoot even if there are enemy guys all over the place


Soldier:
- he shouldn't use his shot gun so often


Heavy:
- fix this god damn heavy aiming, the heavy has like 0 recoil and can hit a target with 100% accuracy (every bullet hits, even if the minigun has a large spread fire cone)
- heavy should check for distance to the nearest enemy (needs testing, because there are classes that you should take out in favour of others)


Spy:
- spies should try to melee attack enemies from behind with knife when possible
- when spies try to cap (CP, CTF, PL) they should remove their disguise


Medic:
- make medics heal more, than attacking, make them sensitive to "call for a medic" event and let them stick with this guys as soon as he is healed or even buffed
- let medics use their ubercharge when their current healing target is being attacked: event player_hurt


waypointing:
- let bots check for visibility between path nodes on calculating paths to the target
ie. when a door is closed, this path is blocked and they'll choose another path or another target
could be a problem with doors where you can see thru though... but that will eventually render setarea and givetype areaonly useless. (needs testing, because of defense points/sentry points/teleporter exit points)
this is implemented by using the "givetype openslater" waypoint type, but bots can see through EVERY door! (even though they are closed) so it doesn't work, an engine bug maybe
- a waypoint type for an alternate route would be nice, so the bots dont attack only by one path, maybe with priorities, so 1 is main path, 2 a good alternative and 3 an alternative, but less good than 2 or even 1 but possible....
I've implemented "route" waypoint types for next version, they are simple additions, so we'll see how they do after a lot of testing

Misc:
- gravity seem not to affect bots, they jump and fall like 4x faster than usual players
this is an engine bug
- when bots see a dispenser (and need supplies) they should use it
this is implemented but happens rarely


nice to have:
- bot and equipment support (use hats, other inventory you usually earn with achievements/find items)
- bot should learn how real players move around in that map
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Cheeseh
post Nov 9 2009, 08:12 PM
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thanks it is good to have suggestions together in an easy to read fashion. I hope that in time I can get these added, because most of them are small additions, though I'm sure a lot of people have mentioned them before.
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der.zoomer
post Nov 10 2009, 11:01 AM
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yah, lets keep a thread stickied where all suggestions are merged and someone can keep track of them all.
RCBot2 is just great
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Cheeseh
post Nov 10 2009, 02:49 PM
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QUOTE(der.zoomer @ Nov 10 2009, 11:01 AM) *

yah, lets keep a thread stickied where all suggestions are merged and someone can keep track of them all.
RCBot2 is just great


I've added route waypoints for the next version, they seem to be working. Only work though on maps with attack points and scripts. i will explain how they work later.

i've edited the first post with some comments
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Rudolf_Hess
post Nov 10 2009, 07:54 PM
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Well first of i know very little about Rc2bot behavior/waypoint system or Cheeseh's raoad map for this bot so mainly my intrest is in the behavior of the bot.Me think's there's two ways at lookin at the behavior:

1 How real players play

2 How the game was ment to be played(team work)

I have some ideas but i'm unshure if they will fit or even work so here goes:

Bots remember more ammo/heath pick ups?

Eng bot i guess allways builds enter teleport at base?

Eng bot checks map timer and last known cart distance from check point then checks for safest place for teleport exit near that location maybe near ammo/health/pickup?

Eng bot keeps checking last known good teleport checks if exit teleport can be moved further up the waypoints destroys current then moves teleport?

Eng bots looks for choke points of most action trys maybe to build sentry near or close to ammo/health pickup?

Eng bot tries to build sentry guns near ammo pick ups=metal?

Other bots could give covering fire when buildings are made/repaired or when fellow team player/s is reloading?

Bot react to possible in game team commands?

Scout bot strafes before or afther useing shotgun?

Heavy weapons bot focus more on short or middle range targets?

Eng bot focus on collecting more metal first before building?

Should the bots decide instead placements teleports/dispensers/sentry guns/sniper spots rarther then waypoints for these specific things(i dunno if this could be done or if it would be better?)


Waypoints as i said i know very very little the rc2bot system so here goes:

Wait waypoint for doors?

Rcbot fill sever?

Rcbot kick team 1/2?

Rcbot waypoint team specific1/2?

Rcbot waypoint combine for team specific waypoints?
The hope is with suggeston it should encorage waypointers to work together by waypointing each side of the map if they want to.This way maybe can learn from each other passing on information lessening the workload.Me think's this option should work well with unbalanced custom maps?
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der.zoomer
post Nov 15 2009, 12:15 PM
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the sniper could orient himself on the angle of the sniper waypoint he is standing on, else he would turn around and look in the wrong direction.
However ... this needs an update of all sniper waypoints tough.
Would be cool if the heavy, when ran out of ammo agets his fists out and punches everyone biggrin.gif
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Fillmore
post Nov 16 2009, 01:55 PM
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QUOTE(der.zoomer @ Nov 15 2009, 12:15 PM) *

the sniper could orient himself on the angle of the sniper waypoint he is standing on, else he would turn around and look in the wrong direction.
However ... this needs an update of all sniper waypoints tough.
Would be cool if the heavy, when ran out of ammo agets his fists out and punches everyone biggrin.gif

I second this biggrin.gif
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der.zoomer
post Nov 22 2009, 09:21 AM
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Another suggestions .. or more bugfixes:
- some bots trying to use waypoint types which are not designed for them
(ie. a heavy tries to go over a rocket jump waypoint, but is stuck there)
happened to scout dj waypoints too sometimes (see 2forts)


- and please for the love of god: fix this damn heavy aiming
heavies kill sentries in no time with their 100% accurate minigun aiming where every bullet hits the target


- please fix medic heal and ubercharge with medigun
they seem to use +attack on each frame, so if the tick of the server is 33 ticks, they aquire and heal a target 33 times in a second
that causes no instant healing on team mates (it starts to heal later)
and it drains ubecharge faster because they lock on their target 33 times a second (plus ubercharge sounds weird when you get uberchraged)


- enable multi CP suport
see cp_gravelpit for example, my script is to make bots attack A, then B, then C
maybe you could enable bots to attack A and B simultaneously, this however requires more scripting because once A is capped there is still B, and only if B is done we can attack C. So there must be a way to tell the bots, the final CP is ready...


- and yes, when bots get stunned, there's a flag for it.
So let the bots check for that flag, maybe on an event or so...
just to fix that stun bug where bots are still able to move after the sandmann ball hits them


- tc_hydro support
on cap, the server gives out which CPs are enabled and capable, so the bot should listen to these signals and make out a route to them


Well it sounds so easy, but programming plugins for a Valve game without proper bot interface support.. I hope you have luck
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shahrukh1
post Nov 26 2009, 01:02 AM
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i think the biggest one
well i think it is the biggest one
AND I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE THIS FIXED
is to show the avatar
you no when u play and u can see peoples avatar
well i would like the bots to have all the same avatar or some random picture u can change
PLEASE GET THIS ONE
AND GET BOTS TO USE THE TELEPORTERS CUZ THATS ANNOYING WHEN THEY DONT
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Fillmore
post Nov 26 2009, 01:09 PM
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QUOTE(shahrukh1 @ Nov 26 2009, 01:02 AM) *

i think the biggest one
well i think it is the biggest one
AND I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE THIS FIXED
is to show the avatar
you no when u play and u can see peoples avatar
well i would like the bots to have all the same avatar or some random picture u can change
PLEASE GET THIS ONE
AND GET BOTS TO USE THE TELEPORTERS CUZ THATS ANNOYING WHEN THEY DONT

Bots use teleporters but it needs to be in a precise place,otherwise they'll ignore it.
And bots stand on the teleporter for about a second.

And for my own suggestions:

-the heavybot should be allowed to move when shooting with the minigun.
-He should also actually use his shotgun, on either faraway enemies(to stop heavy from sniping with his minigun) or when he's low on primary ammo and is attacked by a bot.
-all bots should pull out melee(except Pyro) when enemies are close enough.
-Demomen should get a 'sticky' givetype, purpose is self explanitory.
-Spybots should cloak when passing route points that lead them to where they should go.(it should work)
-Rocketjump and doublejump waypoints should only be allowed for Soldier and Scout.
-Engiebots don't help other engies so often. It should be more often.
-Demomen should get a stickyjump waypoint(will be difficult be get working correctly)
-Scouts should only use teleporters if there aren't other bots on the teleporter.
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shahrukh1
post Nov 26 2009, 01:12 PM
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ok well try and get the avatar thingy
cuz thats all that i care about really
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der.zoomer
post Nov 26 2009, 04:28 PM
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-Demomen should get a 'sticky' givetype, purpose is self explanitory.
> yeah that'd be cool, but there has to be an event when someone is in that sticky radius so the bot who owns these stickies can explode them
> ie capture points, choke points, flags

-Engiebots don't help other engies so often. It should be more often.
> when I plant an teleentrance at our base where another engineer comes out, he starts to whack my teleporter biggrin.gif
> But yes that would be cool so engineers could build up a defense a lot quickier
> maybe realized thru a waypoint "rcbot waypoint givetype sentry_priority"

-Demomen should get a stickyjump waypoint(will be difficult be get working correctly)
> should work like double jump and rocket jump, demoman can move while in air, but yes it needs some tuning though
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Fillmore
post Nov 26 2009, 07:03 PM
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QUOTE(der.zoomer @ Nov 22 2009, 09:21 AM) *

Another suggestions .. or more bugfixes:
- and please for the love of god: fix this damn heavy aiming
heavies kill sentries in no time with their 100% accurate minigun aiming where every bullet hits the target

If I remember correctly,Valve modded the miniguns spreading.

Occasionally when firing, it turns into a sniper rifle,minus the headshots biggrin.gif
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Sjru
post Nov 30 2009, 09:07 PM
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QUOTE(Fillmore @ Nov 26 2009, 10:09 AM) *

Bots use teleporters but it needs to be in a precise place,otherwise they'll ignore it.

-Demomen should get a 'sticky' givetype, purpose is self explanitory.



Can you explain better the "precise place"? You mean in the same place as another waypoint?.

Stickies waypoint should be with radius, and to explode, the bot could check if an enemy is passing through the waypoint to explode, or just check if the stickies are near an enemy.

The sniper issue needs to be fixed ASAP. Sniper only are useful on maps without sniper points, duh.

The attack script for the scout should be changed, for some reason, when I play as heavy, they just run straight forward to me, dying obiously. (they should strafe)

The last suggestion are about the carts, the just jam and bulk near the cart, making they an easy target for explosives.

Another request: I don't have a dual core cpu, and every bot I add (starting from the 5'th) takes out 10 fps. Lowering the rcbot_visrev and rcbot_pathrevs cvars only gives me a 1-2 fps improvement. Can you make a cvar, if possible, to lighten the cpu usage of the bots? Thank you in advance.
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der.zoomer
post Dec 16 2009, 03:09 PM
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Yet another suggestion here:
You know.. when bots are bumping into an obstacle they cannot avoid, they start to jump 3 times.
Would you be so kind to create a CVAR which controls how many times the bot is jumping? biggrin.gif
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der.zoomer
post Jan 6 2010, 09:05 PM
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Some more suggestions:
- Spy detection
When I'm disguised as my own team color, all enemy bots cry SPY all the time.
They can't even know I'm a spy and because I'm disguised as my own team color they will attack me anyways.
Just my 2 cents because I'm career spy with Dead Ringer + Ambasador which requires other tactics than reguar spy. (involving disguising as own team class color).
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Otakumanu
post May 10 2010, 08:45 PM
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My suggestion would be some of the first ones:
Snipers should snipe, I mean, most of the time they are looking at walls.
Bots should be able to capture points on arena and cp_gravelpit, since in arena, they dont capture the points and since they dont look everywhere for hidden enemies, the game never ends.
This are just my suggestions, from what I played.
Nice bots though.
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Otakumanu
post May 12 2010, 09:40 PM
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Oh, and I just wanted to tell that in some maps(dustbowl,pl), bots dont seem to build sentreis.
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Fillmore
post May 22 2010, 10:37 AM
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QUOTE(Otakumanu @ May 12 2010, 09:40 PM) *

Oh, and I just wanted to tell that in some maps(dustbowl,pl), bots dont seem to build sentreis.

pl_dustbowl,huh? Does the map have sentry givetypes in it?
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Cheeseh
post May 23 2010, 12:22 AM
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QUOTE(Fillmore @ May 22 2010, 11:37 AM) *

pl_dustbowl,huh? Does the map have sentry givetypes in it?

you may noticed though that some waypoints are abysmal smile.gif , haha, and they need fixing, especially with CP maps as they should use scripts, because they will need several waypoint areas
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