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Cheeseh
post Feb 3 2013, 02:01 AM
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red = released. blue = unreleased (in SVN), green = to do

dod:s : sprint/prone waypoints
dod:s snipers/defenders/gunners crouch/prone depending on waypoint type at defend/sniper/machine gun point


Revision 269
Modified Thu Jan 31 12:31:43 2013 UTC (2 days, 12 hours ago)

dods: bot choose to plant bombs in less dangerous capture points
dods: bots can plant bombs that block paths
dods: new waypoint 'bombtoopen'

all: added waypoint add <type> <area> e.g. rcbot waypoint add sniper 3 (adds sniper waypoint at area 3)
all: fixed bug - bots not listening to other players (improves combat)
all: mods: fixed divide by zero error with bot's movement

Revision 267
Modified Sun Jan 27 12:40:11 2013 UTC (6 days, 12 hours ago) by rcbotcheeseh

all: fixed random crash to do with weapons
all: fixed 'you do not have access to command' after map change
dod:s bot's step back from bombs before they explode better
dod:s fixed a class bug where bots just stood still and did nothing



Revision 264
Modified Thu Jan 24 11:09:37 2013 UTC (9 days, 14 hours ago) by rcbotcheeseh

dod:s ladder fix
tf2: fix bots not going to point to defend so much when under attack

Revision 263
Modified Thu Jan 24 08:48:40 2013 UTC (9 days, 16 hours ago) by rcbotcheeseh

messaround crash bug with voice commands

Revision 262
Modified Thu Jan 24 07:47:57 2013 UTC (9 days, 17 hours ago) by rcbotcheeseh

tf2: bots don't taunt when on fire or holding flag
tf2: demoman pipe bombing / pipe jumping
tf2: bots can say 'sentry ahead' and 'incoming'
tf2: some crash bugs
all: movement jerk bugs





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genmac
post Feb 3 2013, 05:51 AM
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awesome stuff as always Cheeseh keep up the good work.
The DODS community is forever thankful and all those high quality custom dods maps will get some more well deserve playing time and exposure.
Can't believe there's so much of those maps still being made inspite of the decreasing numbers of dods servers as years go by.

Can you also add some sort of GO TO THIS waypoint id where bots are forced to go to this waypoint just to check if all those intricate wpts will be use properly by the bots. Podbot-mm has that feature. I had to delete certain wpts and paths just to check if the wpts I made for the dod_kalt's ladders to tunnel and out wpts will be use smoothly by the bots since they seldomly use that path when all wpts are inplaced I had to spectate like forverver just to catch if a bot decided to use that path.

Also some sort of connecting paths using ids without the need of touching wpts like...create path from wpt id no.1 to wpt id no.2. This is very useful on connecting
very specific paths when wpts are too close to each other like those ladder/descending wpts I made on kalt's tunnel.
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Cheeseh
post Feb 3 2013, 10:05 AM
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QUOTE(genmac @ Feb 3 2013, 06:51 AM) *

Can you also add some sort of GO TO THIS waypoint id where bots are forced to go to this waypoint just to check if all those intricate wpts will be use properly by the bots. Podbot-mm has that feature. I had to delete certain wpts and paths just to check if the wpts I made for the dod_kalt's ladders to tunnel and out wpts will be use smoothly by the bots since they seldomly use that path when all wpts are inplaced I had to spectate like forverver just to catch if a bot decided to use that path.

Also some sort of connecting paths using ids without the need of touching wpts like...create path from wpt id no.1 to wpt id no.2. This is very useful on connecting very specific paths when wpts are too close to each other like those ladder/descending wpts I made on kalt's tunnel.


already done, use

rcbot debug bot <botname>

then goto a waypoint and type

rcbot debug bot_goto

the bot with <bot name> should try to go to the waypoint, if he doesn't you can use 'rcbot debug nav 1' and see what it's really doing

--------

as for the other suggestion, not sure what you mean exactly, I'd just switch "rcbot pathwaypoint disable" then add the waypoint, then use "create1" and "create2" without the fear of connecting unwanted waypoints, you can put rcbot pathwaypoint enable again
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genmac
post Feb 3 2013, 10:19 AM
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awesome! now testing certain wpts routes is much so easier, tnx for the guide.

the other one is about connecting wpts via use of wpt ID or wpt number instead of the old way of using pathwaypoint create1/2. when wpts are too close to each other it's so hard getting them properly connected and unconnected since you gotta be touching them to get the connections properly connected or not and sometimes certain maps makes it harder to view the connections.
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TesterYYY
post Feb 4 2013, 03:44 AM
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Thanks for updates!
BTW: Can you describe how to use bombtoopen? I tried but it doesnt work, maybe I am doing something wrong.
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Cheeseh
post Feb 4 2013, 05:01 AM
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i'll think about the pathwaypoint create1 <id> command


QUOTE(TesterYYY @ Feb 4 2013, 04:44 AM) *

Thanks for updates!
BTW: Can you describe how to use bombtoopen? I tried but it doesnt work, maybe I am doing something wrong.


I'll update the waypoint guide with some screenshots of usage soon
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YuriFR
post Jan 7 2014, 11:39 PM
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QUOTE(Cheeseh @ Feb 3 2013, 12:01 AM) *

red = released. blue = unreleased (in SVN), green = to do

dod:s : sprint/prone waypoints
dod:s snipers/defenders/gunners crouch/prone depending on waypoint type at defend/sniper/machine gun point


Revision 269
Modified Thu Jan 31 12:31:43 2013 UTC (2 days, 12 hours ago)

dods: bot choose to plant bombs in less dangerous capture points
dods: bots can plant bombs that block paths
dods: new waypoint 'bombtoopen'

all: added waypoint add <type> <area> e.g. rcbot waypoint add sniper 3 (adds sniper waypoint at area 3)
all: fixed bug - bots not listening to other players (improves combat)
all: mods: fixed divide by zero error with bot's movement

Revision 267
Modified Sun Jan 27 12:40:11 2013 UTC (6 days, 12 hours ago) by rcbotcheeseh

all: fixed random crash to do with weapons
all: fixed 'you do not have access to command' after map change
dod:s bot's step back from bombs before they explode better
dod:s fixed a class bug where bots just stood still and did nothing

Revision 264
Modified Thu Jan 24 11:09:37 2013 UTC (9 days, 14 hours ago) by rcbotcheeseh

dod:s ladder fix
tf2: fix bots not going to point to defend so much when under attack

Revision 263
Modified Thu Jan 24 08:48:40 2013 UTC (9 days, 16 hours ago) by rcbotcheeseh

messaround crash bug with voice commands

Revision 262
Modified Thu Jan 24 07:47:57 2013 UTC (9 days, 17 hours ago) by rcbotcheeseh

tf2: bots don't taunt when on fire or holding flag
tf2: demoman pipe bombing / pipe jumping
tf2: bots can say 'sentry ahead' and 'incoming'
tf2: some crash bugs
all: movement jerk bugs




A long time i trying to contact you, mr. Cheeseh, or someone who develope any Bots system for Dod:Source. The reason is that I am a BIG FAN of Dod Classic with bots (old system "Sturmbot" for Dod - Half-Life1) since beta 3.1 version (around the years 2001/2002). However, with the death of the Sturmbot developer "Johan 'Jowo' Linde" (Tsunami-2005), the project "Sturmbot" was interrupted (in version 1.7).
I understand that may no longer be possible to reactivate it in Dod:S, but my opinion is that a system of bots for Dod:Source should follow roughly the same path trodden by "Jowo".

I EXPLAIN:

One of the greatest qualities of old Sturmbot is the ability of the AI ​​to interact as a squad-team, in which the soldier was emit voice and gestures commands, one to each other. The Sturmbot wore almost all commands animations and commands voices, existing as standard in the game. Consequently, the soldiers could be decide to obey or not to obey the order of the voice command (and gesture). This characteristic made the atmosphere of game much more dramatic (like a thriller movie, similar to the famous "Saving private Ryan"), because the human player could be hear (and see) the commands of his own team and the screams (and gestures) of the enemy, when they were approaching. All this causing a feeling of being in a real war (as in game "Medal of Honor: Alied Assault - MOH:AA").

I tried to recreate the same game experience of Dod classic with bots in Dod:S, but in the currents Systems of bots for Dod:S there are no equal resources as in the old Sturmbot system. I am not able to program bots, but many people would like to get the same experience of playing Dod:S like the old and good Sturmbot system.

With this suggestion i also put a link to the changelog (all history of changes) of old Sturmbot sistem. My expectation is that someone (for example: you, or/and yours partners) considers this as a positive opinion, and based on this changelog, implement new scripts that produce the same desired effects.

The results will be probably very fantastic !!!

THE LINK FOR CHANGELOG HISTORY:
http://jasonwilliams400com.startlogic.com/...ion_History.txt


If you do not know the old Sturmbot, I suggest you search for "Sturmbot" on YouTube. But even better is to install an old version of Day of Defeat (HL1 mod), download the version of the corresponding Sturmbot, and experience it firsthand.



Thank you so much for considering this message!

[[my apologies: using google translator...]]
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genmac
post Jan 9 2014, 03:24 PM
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Have you tried the latest version?
Rcbot2 is almost as good as Sturmbot now.
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YuriFR
post Jan 9 2014, 05:38 PM
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QUOTE(genmac @ Jan 9 2014, 01:24 PM) *

Have you tried the latest version?
Rcbot2 is almost as good as Sturmbot now.


You know about old Sturmbot? Today it is rare to find someone who has played with classic Dod with Sturmbot... I do not have the latest version of Rcbot2.
The core of my idea is that Cheeseh can take a shortcut in developing Rcbot, from the changelod of Sturmbot 1.7, or from the study of the source-code of Sturmbot 1.7. In my opinion the Sturmbot has features that make the game very close to a war movie.
Obviously: the Sturmbot could have been more perfect (eg.: the bots do not take-cover against the suppressive fire of the enemy, as in Medal of Honor: Allied Assault, or in Brothers in Arms, or in Men of War). He was not perfect because Johan Linde (Jowo) died.
So, the Rcbot could continue the legacy of Sturmbot, not only reproducing many features of Sturmbot, but also taking it further (as cited resource: more perfect take-cover).

If you agree with the idea, please strengthen my argument with the team of developers (Cheeseh and partners).

PS: link for changelog again: http://jasonwilliams400com.startlogic.com/...ion_History.txt

THANK YOU!
[[my apologies: using google translator...]]
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madmax2
post Jan 10 2014, 04:23 AM
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Welcome YuriFR,

QUOTE
You know about old Sturmbot? Today it is rare to find someone who has played with classic Dod with Sturmbot... I do not have the latest version of Rcbot2.
The core of my idea is that Cheeseh can take a shortcut in developing Rcbot, from the changelod of Sturmbot 1.7, or from the study of the source-code of Sturmbot 1.7. In my opinion the Sturmbot has features that make the game very close to a war movie.


Yes, we are well aware of sturmbot (some of us are even fans smile.gif ), it's a great bot for dod classic. Thanks for your input & suggestion. RCbot2 is still beta, and getting better with each release. Cheeseh is the only coder working on RCbot2.

I still have dod/sturmbots (1.6 & 1.5) installed on a PC, so I loaded it up today to refresh my memory. Looks like there were a lot of improvements with sturmbot 1.7, but 1.6 & 1.5 was good too. I think Rcbot2 bots chat & yell out, about the same with the latest version (.76). But I'm not sure if they respond to as many voice commands as sturmbot did?

Sturmbots often responded to other bots or player voice commands. Some of what they said was:

point captured or objective secure
sector clear
enemy ahead
sniper
clear out/area clear
fire in the hole
grenade
use that so fine/yes sir

RCbots also yell most of these things too. But the game is different too, and it doesn't seem sound carries as far in dod:s as it did in dod classic. Background sounds seem muted in many dod:s maps. In many ways, dod:s just doesn't have the same atmosphere as the old dod classic, which seems more arcade, but was a blast to play wink.gif ... I think the gestures are a function of the game, not the bots/AI? RCbots do work in small teams at times, but maybe not the same as sturmbots, more independent of the players.

It doe's add atmosphere to the game... I would like to see RCbot2 take action on more voice commands, that would be cool. Perhaps, in time, this will happen?

btw, RCbot2 .76 is about revision 336, so a lot has changed since this thread was updated...

madmax2
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YuriFR
post Jan 10 2014, 03:44 PM
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QUOTE(madmax2 @ Jan 10 2014, 02:23 AM) *

Welcome YuriFR,
Yes, we are well aware of sturmbot (some of us are even fans :) ), it's a great bot for dod classic. Thanks for your input & suggestion. RCbot2 is still beta, and getting better with each release. Cheeseh is the only coder working on RCbot2.

I still have dod/sturmbots (1.6 & 1.5) installed on a PC, so I loaded it up today to refresh my memory. Looks like there were a lot of improvements with sturmbot 1.7, but 1.6 & 1.5 was good too. I think Rcbot2 bots chat & yell out, about the same with the latest version (.76). But I'm not sure if they respond to as many voice commands as sturmbot did?

Sturmbots often responded to other bots or player voice commands. Some of what they said was:
... ...
madmax2


[[my apologies: using google translator...]]

First of all: I was VERY HAPPY with your posting. A ray of hope comes upon me when I still see players (DoD:S) that are fans of Sturmbot system for Dod - H.L.1.
I repeat to you, mr. madmax2, the request I made earlier: we need a "quorum" to support the idea that Sturmbot system should be considered throughout the development of Rcbot2 system.
The Rcbot NOT HAVE TO BE A COPY OF STURMBOT, that's not it!: the Rcbot can earn a lot and move forward, from the legacy of old Sturmbot system! The Sturmbot system can function as a stepping stone (a shortcut) for the Rcbot; able to enhance him - this is the core of idea.

I'm being repetitive, in a way, because I am anxious that mr. Cheeseh understand the EXACT DIMENSION of the implications (benefits and gains) of this idea. Mr. Cheeseh is currently the ONLY ONE ABLE to take this idea on behalf of the user community to bot for Dod:S. And maybe he does not know HOW GOOD WAS THE OLD SYSTEM STURMBOT (changelog: http://jasonwilliams400com.startlogic.com/...ion_History.txt ). I think Sturmbot was far more superior than, for example, Podbot and Shrikebot systems for Dod classic. There is no comparison, an example: there are no command voice / gestures system between bots (or bots to humans players).... He only was not more perfect because it was impossible: the developer "Jowo" died and no one was more skilled at good understanding the source-code of Sturmbot.When I learned of his death (2005), I swear: I was sad for more than 1 week, in mourning, as if someone my family had died !


As for voice commands and gestures, i make the following observations:

1 - You (madmax2) is correct: the gestures and voice commands have always been a feature of the game (Dod), and not of the AI (Sturmbot system).
However, and this is one of the commendable points!!!, the Sturmbot was able to activate voice commands and gestures (both pre-existing) producing in bots the same behavioral effects that could happen if the receivers (bots soldiers) were human soldiers (each behavioral effect on bots corresponding to each type of voice command and gesture.) This is one of the characteristics of Sturmbot who I (and many others...) would like to see on the Rcbot system!!

2 - [About form squads] I do not know the exact size of the squads formed in the beginning of each match. But i remember that a bot assumed the position of commander after issuing a voice command (with simultaneous gesture correspondent). A number of bots (maybe 3-5, I don't know) followed this commander, obeying (or not)** his orders. As the maximum possible players in a game was 16 vs. 16 (32 in all), i suppose that there were over 1 commander (and more than 1 squad) per match. Approximately: if we divide 16 by 4 (1 commander + 3 followers), we have the possibility of 4 squads per team (8 squads in all). Logically, the size of the squads were varied, then: most likely had less than 4 squads per team.

**Observation: soldiers within a squad usually obeys his commander. However, the condition of combat could range. So, some bots changed their behavioral response: taking a more autonomous stance (even to the extreme of denying an order of his commander; shouting: "No, sir!")

3 - You (madmax2) cited some commands (and gesture) activated by Sturmbot. I remembered a few more besides these:
- "MG enemy ahead!" (warning to knock down fixed enemy MGs, or take careful with them)
- "Move up to MG-gun/30.Cal!" (teams MGs/.30cal ordered to put his MGs in fixed point, such as barricades and/or sandbags)
- "Displace!" (Disperse the soldiers teams of fixed points: MGs and Snipers)
- "No sir!" / "yes sir!" (do not to obey or obey the commands voice and gestures (according to the battle situation))
- "Flank right!" / "Flank left!" (bots indicated flanks that he was under attack from the enemy)
- "Move out!" / "Go go go!" (Squads ordered to continue the progression under terrain)
- "Fall back!" (withdrawn, when enemy fire was too intense)
- "I need backup!" (Specific to call other bots or human player to support taking a point that requires 2 or more soldiers)
- "Squad, stick together!" (a particular bot assumed the position of commander and others followed him). There was an alternative command that listed the names of the bots (and human players) in order to follow the commander. I think it was something like: " 'Soldier X', follow me!", " 'Soldier Y', follow me!" ... etc, until the end of the list of members who will form the squad.

I do not remember, now, if there was more voice commands and gesture, i guess yes. If I remember that, I'll come back to post. I suggest those interested to consult the changelod of the Sturmbot (same link above), to know.


Thank you all!
[[my apologies: using google translator...]]
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Cheeseh
post Jan 10 2014, 10:51 PM
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Its good to see some fans after all these years.

Anyway as for voice commands you said, as of current release:


- "sniper!" Same as mg enemy ahead (below)
- "MG enemy ahead!" (Bots say this when they see a team member killed by a mg, bots hearing this will become more cautious and more likely to use smoke grenades)
- "No sir!" / "yes sir!" If a bot does something because of another players voice command, it will say 'yes'. Otherwise it might say no
- "Move out!" / "Go go go!" Bots hearing this will stop sniping etc and start attacking a capture point
- "Hold your position" bots hearing this are more likely to defend and not stop what they're doing
- "I need backup!" Bots say this when they are capturing and need another player to capture. If a bot hears and sees this player on the same team they will stop what they're doing and then join the capture

For next version

- "Squad, stick together!" (Bots will follow this person or form a squad)

For next version actually i've been working on squads, rcbot1 has squads and I'm just going to take the code of rcbot1 into rcbot2 for trial soon
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YuriFR
post Jan 11 2014, 02:04 AM
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QUOTE(Cheeseh @ Jan 10 2014, 08:51 PM) *

Its good to see some fans after all these years.

Anyway as for voice commands you said, as of current release:
- "sniper!" Same as mg enemy ahead (below)
- "MG enemy ahead!" (Bots say this when they see a team member killed by a mg, bots hearing this will become more cautious and more likely to use smoke grenades)
- "No sir!" / "yes sir!" If a bot does something because of another players voice command, it will say 'yes'. Otherwise it might say no
- "Move out!" / "Go go go!" Bots hearing this will stop sniping etc and start attacking a capture point
- "Hold your position" bots hearing this are more likely to defend and not stop what they're doing
- "I need backup!" Bots say this when they are capturing and need another player to capture. If a bot hears and sees this player on the same team they will stop what they're doing and then join the capture

For next version

- "Squad, stick together!" (Bots will follow this person or form a squad)

For next version actually i've been working on squads, rcbot1 has squads and I'm just going to take the code of rcbot1 into rcbot2 for trial soon


[[my apologies: using google translator...]]

Finally I found you, mr. Cheeseh! It is a great pleasure to talk to you! smile.gif

I apologize for my insistence (I did many similar posts) , because I was looking for "surround you" with this matter. If after all, you are also a fan of Sturmbot , I am even more happy and honored to meet you!! smile.gif smile.gif

The Sturmbot brought me many joys for many years (my internet was too slow and I could not play online, many time ago ...). It may seem strange to say this: but I have much appreciation (and affection) by Sturmbot software, and great regret that he had not been continued. To me Johan 'Jowo' Linde was a genius (with age he possessed when developed them...).
Because of all this, i think it Sturmbot deserves to be a beacon, a guide to direct the development of bots systems for Dod: Source.

If Rcbot is able to reproduce existing resources in Sturmbot and go beyond: achieving improve them (I imagine, for the future, a mix between AI of: Medal of Honor:Allied Assult, Men of War and Brother in Arms). If you achieve something close to that, be assured: THE ENTIRE OF OUR COMMUNITY FEEL IN PARADISE !!!


Summarizing all my intentions:
-1) Study the evolution of the chengelog of Sturmbot, preserving what he has positive and innovative and think about what can be improved [link again: http://jasonwilliams400com.startlogic.com/...ion_History.txt];
-2) Evaluate experimentally the behavior of bots (Sturmbot) during battles (you would have to install the Classic Dod with Sturmbot 1.7). Then...
-3 ) try to implement the same things in Rcbot . ...
...And finally (perhaps the most important step):
-4 ) enhance the features implemented (even surpassing the capabilities of Sturmbot )!
ONLY YOU CAN DO IT ! No one else can do.

With regard to what you stated , I have a doubt: bots of Rcbot are able to send these commands between themselves, or are only able to follow the orders issued from human players? The Sturmbot could make the bots emit (and follow) orders among themselves. If the Rcbot does not..., there is a suggestion to implement for future.

As for me: remains the hope and expectation of reviving the wartime environment provided by Sturmbot ( now in a much more modern platform: Dod:Source)

Post your opinion about everything.
Thanks! smile.gif

[[my apologies: using google translator...]]
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Cheeseh
post Jan 11 2014, 09:46 AM
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QUOTE(YuriFR @ Jan 11 2014, 03:04 AM) *

[[my apologies: using google translator...]]

With regard to what you stated , I have a doubt: bots of Rcbot are able to send these commands between themselves, or are only able to follow the orders issued from human players? The Sturmbot could make the bots emit (and follow) orders among themselves. If the Rcbot does not..., there is a suggestion to implement for future.

As for me: remains the hope and expectation of reviving the wartime environment provided by Sturmbot ( now in a much more modern platform: Dod:Source)

Post your opinion about everything.
Thanks! smile.gif

[[my apologies: using google translator...]]


I will have a look at the sturmbot for some ideas for improvement, and with regard to your question above, yes actually rcbots will listen to other bots' voice commands.
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YuriFR
post Jan 11 2014, 03:37 PM
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QUOTE(Cheeseh @ Jan 11 2014, 07:46 AM) *

I will have a look at the sturmbot for some ideas for improvement, and with regard to your question above, yes actually rcbots will listen to other bots' voice commands.


[[my apologies: using google translator...]]

Mr. Cheeseh, I will take this opportunity (and opening for discussion) for add some considerations about STURMBOT (and Rcbot).
Do not worry, it was extensive, but I tried to be objective as far as possible:


1 -- Surely you can program better than me (I have only rudimentary notions about programming). I tried to study ".dll" of the Sturmbot many years ago (I think it is "SturmBot.dll"), but it still fails. I used 2 types of software programs, you can use with greater success than I:

1.1) The Hex (hexadecimal) Editor;
1.2) An editor for files with the extension ".exe".


2 -- Some solutions produced by Johan "Jowo" Linde were very simple, smart and commendable. I don't remember all exactly, but I will mention a few that you can recreate:

A) The bots are always communicating with each other (when necessary: issuing orders and obeying them). Every voice communication is accompanied by an correspondent animation (gesture). After listening a voice command, the bot always responds "Yes, sir!", before obeying the voice command (or during the act of obeying him). Sometimes the bots don't obey the voice command, in such cases they respond: "No, sir!" (and do not meet the corresponding action at voice command).
a.1) When a bot sees a new hitherto unknown enemy, he yells "Enemy ahead!" (or: "Enemy behind-us!" - according to the direction of the enemy). In response, all the bots around turn in the direction (pointed) where the enemy is and open fire in order to knock it down.
a.2) When a bot spots a sniper on pre-established position for Sniper (specific waypoint for snipers), he immediately yells "Sniper!" and points the finger at corresponent direction. In response, all around bots pointing their guns toward the specific waypoint for Snipers and open fire (if there is more than one waypoint for snipers, around, all are cleaned by fire). I think the same happens with fixed MGs of the enemy, if its MGs aren't pointing directly to the troop (but, in this cases, bots yells "Mg ahead!" and NOT "Sniper!").

B.) When the bots listen enemy footsteps, or the sound of gunfire/battles/fights/explosions etc. nearest, within your "hearing field", they stop walking, look toward the noise, without exposing themselves to enemy fire, and evaluate behavioral response to adopt shortly thereafter, examples: " throw grenades? Continue straight (more cautiously) or withdraw? Back and search for another alternative path or way? Flanking? Call reinforcements, or wait for them...? To put MGs in fixed point? 'Use' the Sniper (on fixed position) " etc. etc. ...

C) If I am not mistaken, when bots listen the sounds of MGs/.30Call firing, they adopt defensive behavior and seek to knock it down the machine gun nest with grenades or flanking maneuvers (not remain with offensive move that expose them to direct fire of enemy MG-gun/30.Call: i don't remember if it was done to perfection... at least it should have been implemented in this way).

D) If the bots listen command "Cover(ing) fire!", they immediately start firing together (volleys of suppression fires) against the enemy position, to cover the movement of the issuer of the voice command. However, the suppressive fire was not perfect (do not last long) and needs to be improved in future (perhaps, for versions after last Sturmbot version 1.7)...

E) Sturmbot was also able to provide, for the bots, a behavioral response at voice command (and gesture) "Take (ing) Cover!" (in cases of very intense offensives by enemies). If I'm not mistaken, the bots respond to this command shouting "Yes, sir!". But without performing a proper action corresponding, such as fleeing towards some cover from enemy fire (eg: sandbags, behind walls, crouching behind rubble, stay prone etc.). I think "Jowo" planned to complete the response at this particular command, but he died before completing this job or task... Unfortunately! ... sad.gif

F) A perfect solution in Sturmbot was: when a bot (or human player) throws a grenade and says "Fire in the hole!", all the bots around stop walking, crouch (or prone) and expect/wait the detonation of the grenade to proceed with their movements and actions. When a grenade falls near the bots, they enter a state of panic (they yell: "Grenade!" and gesticulate to get out of there), and all of there disperse quickly, run far out, jump and stay prone to protect themselves.

G) A bot when traverses a path (waypoints), and is interrupted by the sighting of an enemy that is out of your route (and this enemy turn a corner, evade, or hiding), the bot stops walking, abandons his route and engages against the enemy (until to kill him with gunfire or/and grenades). Once killing the enemy (if no other "engages" and contingencies), the bot returns to where he left the road and continues along the old route. The same thing happen when 2, 3 or more bots traverses a path and sees an enemy out of his routes: all of them (2, 3 or more bots) abandon the route, together(!), with the intention of engaging the enemy, until his death. After that, they return (together too) to the old route.

! ------> OBSERVATION: therefore, it is clear that the bots had a "system of memory" (relative to what they were doing before being interrupted) - this is commendable. It is also obvious that each individual bot has a "sense of ensemble", a kind of "perception of being in a group", and also a kind of "perception/evaluation of enemy danger", all important to base their behavioral responses to every moment and to every challenge! I don't know how this was done... IS FANTASTIC! This is commendable too !!!
Suggestion: study both folders: "temp" and "learn" inside the "Sturmbot" folder (after installing Sturmbot on your computer). There are files (scripts?...) relating to the process of memorization and learning of bots. The files will be generated only after you have started (and finished) a match with Sturmbot.
<------ !

H) When the bots were in a situation of very intense fire (or many enemies gathered), they used grenades effectively. If one alone bot was confronted with 3 or more enemies (approximately), it tends to throw grenade with much more frequency (withdraws from exposure to fire and throws the grenade). A bot alone, cornered, tends a retreat/(withdraw) throwing grenades when appropriate (or firing at the enemy while moving back).
   h.1) Bots in situations of intense fire also seek to hide, or adopt behaviors that minimize damage and casualties, eg: stay prone on the floor.

I) In Sturmbot v.1.7, bots are able to shoot and, then immediately, dodge the response of fire (give steps back or give steps to the side), then return to starting shooting position and fire again (successively repeating the escape movement of fire, after each shooting). If I'm not mistaken, at the end of ammo (empty guns), bots hide from enemy fire to reload their guns safely (they hidden behind walls, corners, sandbags etc.)

J) When a bot suddenly colide with another bot (or human player), staying very close to each other, no time to fire weapon: the bot is able to hide their gun and pulls his knife (or bayonet) to engage the enemy and kill him, on close combat.

K) When a bot operator MG-gun (or .30Cal) ran out of ammunition, he immediately started screaming (and gesture) "I need ammo!" and kept repeating it (periodically) until he received boxes of ammunition for MGs, from other bots or humans (in response). (The same can happen with others soldiers without ammunitions, but it was very, very much rare...!).

L) When the bots in the vicinity hear the voice command / gesture "Use your grenades!", they stop, exchange their fire-arms by grenade and throw that toward the enemy troops (at this moment every bot that throws the grenade yells "Fire in the hole!"- and the other bots crouch or stay prone, waiting the detonation of the grenade to continue in combat). If a bot has no more grenades (because already used), they ignore the command and respond with "No, sir!". I don't remember seeing a bot using the voice command "Use your grenades!" to another bot ... however, when I used this command, the bots (in the vicinity) who possessed grenades responded promptly! I recommend that in the future someone makes a bot use this command to another bot (because I think that was what Jowo wanted before he died). This was one of the voice commands that I liked to use.

M) The voice command "Move up to MG-gun/.30Cal" (I think it is), as I have said before: "MGs/.30cal of the squad ordered to put his MGs/.30Cal in fixed point, such as barricades and / or sandbags". Until the latest version of Sturmbot (1.7) this command does not work very well, certainly Johan Linde would have corrected this problem if alive: the bots could use it among themselves, and the human player could use to guide the bots, but the response of bot which operated the machine gun was unsatisfactory. The gunner often established a fixed position in sandbags (or other point) far from the front line, within the field already won. Thus, it was not possible to provide support fire on the contact line between the troops. It was missing a better program script, able to indicate the gunner to understand where is the front-line, every moment (in order to find the nearest sandbag for fire support). Sometimes the gunner chose an effective sandbag for fire support, most of the time he could not hit this.

---

LINKS ABOUT STURMBOT (DOCUMENTATION): http://jasonwilliams400com.startlogic.com/.../Documentation/

1- SturmBot Readme: http://jasonwilliams400com.startlogic.com/...mBot_Readme.txt

2- SturmBot Commands*:
http://jasonwilliams400com.startlogic.com/...ot_Commands.txt

*Warning!: Jowo not list all the commands programmed, in this document about commands.

3- SturmBot version History (changelog again):
http://jasonwilliams400com.startlogic.com/...ion_History.txt

-------------------------xx--------------------------------------

You want own a copy of this post? Just ask that I send you by e-mail (or in person, by own Rcbot forum).


I stay awaiting your considerations!
Thank you very much!

smile.gif

[[my apologies: using google translator...]]
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Cheeseh
post Jan 12 2014, 11:49 AM
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QUOTE(YuriFR @ Jan 11 2014, 04:37 PM) *

[[my apologies: using google translator...]]

Mr. Cheeseh, I will take this opportunity (and opening for discussion) for add some considerations about STURMBOT (and Rcbot).
Do not worry, it was extensive, but I tried to be objective as far as possible:
1 -- Surely you can program better than me (I have only rudimentary notions about programming). I tried to study ".dll" of the Sturmbot many years ago (I think it is "SturmBot.dll"), but it still fails. I used 2 types of software programs, you can use with greater success than I:

1.1) The Hex (hexadecimal) Editor;
1.2) An editor for files with the extension ".exe".
2 -- Some solutions produced by Johan "Jowo" Linde were very simple, smart and commendable. I don't remember all exactly, but I will mention a few that you can recreate:

A) The bots are always communicating with each other (when necessary: issuing orders and obeying them). Every voice communication is accompanied by an correspondent animation (gesture). After listening a voice command, the bot always responds "Yes, sir!", before obeying the voice command (or during the act of obeying him). Sometimes the bots don't obey the voice command, in such cases they respond: "No, sir!" (and do not meet the corresponding action at voice command).
a.1) When a bot sees a new hitherto unknown enemy, he yells "Enemy ahead!" (or: "Enemy behind-us!" - according to the direction of the enemy). In response, all the bots around turn in the direction (pointed) where the enemy is and open fire in order to knock it down.
a.2) When a bot spots a sniper on pre-established position for Sniper (specific waypoint for snipers), he immediately yells "Sniper!" and points the finger at corresponent direction. In response, all around bots pointing their guns toward the specific waypoint for Snipers and open fire (if there is more than one waypoint for snipers, around, all are cleaned by fire). I think the same happens with fixed MGs of the enemy, if its MGs aren't pointing directly to the troop (but, in this cases, bots yells "Mg ahead!" and NOT "Sniper!").

B.) When the bots listen enemy footsteps, or the sound of gunfire/battles/fights/explosions etc. nearest, within your "hearing field", they stop walking, look toward the noise, without exposing themselves to enemy fire, and evaluate behavioral response to adopt shortly thereafter, examples: " throw grenades? Continue straight (more cautiously) or withdraw? Back and search for another alternative path or way? Flanking? Call reinforcements, or wait for them...? To put MGs in fixed point? 'Use' the Sniper (on fixed position) " etc. etc. ...

C) If I am not mistaken, when bots listen the sounds of MGs/.30Call firing, they adopt defensive behavior and seek to knock it down the machine gun nest with grenades or flanking maneuvers (not remain with offensive move that expose them to direct fire of enemy MG-gun/30.Call: i don't remember if it was done to perfection... at least it should have been implemented in this way).

D) If the bots listen command "Cover(ing) fire!", they immediately start firing together (volleys of suppression fires) against the enemy position, to cover the movement of the issuer of the voice command. However, the suppressive fire was not perfect (do not last long) and needs to be improved in future (perhaps, for versions after last Sturmbot version 1.7)...

E) Sturmbot was also able to provide, for the bots, a behavioral response at voice command (and gesture) "Take (ing) Cover!" (in cases of very intense offensives by enemies). If I'm not mistaken, the bots respond to this command shouting "Yes, sir!". But without performing a proper action corresponding, such as fleeing towards some cover from enemy fire (eg: sandbags, behind walls, crouching behind rubble, stay prone etc.). I think "Jowo" planned to complete the response at this particular command, but he died before completing this job or task... Unfortunately! ... sad.gif

F) A perfect solution in Sturmbot was: when a bot (or human player) throws a grenade and says "Fire in the hole!", all the bots around stop walking, crouch (or prone) and expect/wait the detonation of the grenade to proceed with their movements and actions. When a grenade falls near the bots, they enter a state of panic (they yell: "Grenade!" and gesticulate to get out of there), and all of there disperse quickly, run far out, jump and stay prone to protect themselves.

G) A bot when traverses a path (waypoints), and is interrupted by the sighting of an enemy that is out of your route (and this enemy turn a corner, evade, or hiding), the bot stops walking, abandons his route and engages against the enemy (until to kill him with gunfire or/and grenades). Once killing the enemy (if no other "engages" and contingencies), the bot returns to where he left the road and continues along the old route. The same thing happen when 2, 3 or more bots traverses a path and sees an enemy out of his routes: all of them (2, 3 or more bots) abandon the route, together(!), with the intention of engaging the enemy, until his death. After that, they return (together too) to the old route.

! ------> OBSERVATION: therefore, it is clear that the bots had a "system of memory" (relative to what they were doing before being interrupted) - this is commendable. It is also obvious that each individual bot has a "sense of ensemble", a kind of "perception of being in a group", and also a kind of "perception/evaluation of enemy danger", all important to base their behavioral responses to every moment and to every challenge! I don't know how this was done... IS FANTASTIC! This is commendable too !!!
Suggestion: study both folders: "temp" and "learn" inside the "Sturmbot" folder (after installing Sturmbot on your computer). There are files (scripts?...) relating to the process of memorization and learning of bots. The files will be generated only after you have started (and finished) a match with Sturmbot.
<------ !

H) When the bots were in a situation of very intense fire (or many enemies gathered), they used grenades effectively. If one alone bot was confronted with 3 or more enemies (approximately), it tends to throw grenade with much more frequency (withdraws from exposure to fire and throws the grenade). A bot alone, cornered, tends a retreat/(withdraw) throwing grenades when appropriate (or firing at the enemy while moving back).
   h.1) Bots in situations of intense fire also seek to hide, or adopt behaviors that minimize damage and casualties, eg: stay prone on the floor.

I) In Sturmbot v.1.7, bots are able to shoot and, then immediately, dodge the response of fire (give steps back or give steps to the side), then return to starting shooting position and fire again (successively repeating the escape movement of fire, after each shooting). If I'm not mistaken, at the end of ammo (empty guns), bots hide from enemy fire to reload their guns safely (they hidden behind walls, corners, sandbags etc.)

J) When a bot suddenly colide with another bot (or human player), staying very close to each other, no time to fire weapon: the bot is able to hide their gun and pulls his knife (or bayonet) to engage the enemy and kill him, on close combat.

K) When a bot operator MG-gun (or .30Cal) ran out of ammunition, he immediately started screaming (and gesture) "I need ammo!" and kept repeating it (periodically) until he received boxes of ammunition for MGs, from other bots or humans (in response). (The same can happen with others soldiers without ammunitions, but it was very, very much rare...!).

L) When the bots in the vicinity hear the voice command / gesture "Use your grenades!", they stop, exchange their fire-arms by grenade and throw that toward the enemy troops (at this moment every bot that throws the grenade yells "Fire in the hole!"- and the other bots crouch or stay prone, waiting the detonation of the grenade to continue in combat). If a bot has no more grenades (because already used), they ignore the command and respond with "No, sir!". I don't remember seeing a bot using the voice command "Use your grenades!" to another bot ... however, when I used this command, the bots (in the vicinity) who possessed grenades responded promptly! I recommend that in the future someone makes a bot use this command to another bot (because I think that was what Jowo wanted before he died). This was one of the voice commands that I liked to use.

M) The voice command "Move up to MG-gun/.30Cal" (I think it is), as I have said before: "MGs/.30cal of the squad ordered to put his MGs/.30Cal in fixed point, such as barricades and / or sandbags". Until the latest version of Sturmbot (1.7) this command does not work very well, certainly Johan Linde would have corrected this problem if alive: the bots could use it among themselves, and the human player could use to guide the bots, but the response of bot which operated the machine gun was unsatisfactory. The gunner often established a fixed position in sandbags (or other point) far from the front line, within the field already won. Thus, it was not possible to provide support fire on the contact line between the troops. It was missing a better program script, able to indicate the gunner to understand where is the front-line, every moment (in order to find the nearest sandbag for fire support). Sometimes the gunner chose an effective sandbag for fire support, most of the time he could not hit this.

---

LINKS ABOUT STURMBOT (DOCUMENTATION): http://jasonwilliams400com.startlogic.com/.../Documentation/

1- SturmBot Readme: http://jasonwilliams400com.startlogic.com/...mBot_Readme.txt

2- SturmBot Commands*:
http://jasonwilliams400com.startlogic.com/...ot_Commands.txt

*Warning!: Jowo not list all the commands programmed, in this document about commands.

3- SturmBot version History (changelog again):
http://jasonwilliams400com.startlogic.com/...ion_History.txt

-------------------------xx--------------------------------------

You want own a copy of this post? Just ask that I send you by e-mail (or in person, by own Rcbot forum).
I stay awaiting your considerations!
Thank you very much!

smile.gif

[[my apologies: using google translator...]]


Hi Yuri , thanks for the suggestions although rcbot2 already has a lot of these features, so I'd like you to try the bot first and tell me what you think would be better and most important; because a lot of this is implemented already.

For example:

Bots currently shout 'grenade' when they see a grenade and try their best to take cover, when they hear someone shout grenade, they also take cover.

In DOD:S most voice commands automatically accompany a gesture

Bots listen for footsteps and firing made by others by facing the direction of the noise but they keep walking in their current path, if they want to attack, they might follow the enemy and after that they may continue their old path

The bots will shout 'enemy behind us' but will not react yet

Bots only shout sniper when they see a friendly being killed by an enemy sniper. This will cause bots to attempt to throw grenades at the sniper including smoke grenades to take cover. Other bots might prone or slow down moment.

Bots will shout 'fire in the hole' when they throw a grenade. At the moment no-one reacts to the voice command.

With regard to memory, rcbot creates many runtime files, such as RLD (waypoint distance learning) , RCV (waypoint visual information - which helps bots know where to take cover) and RCB (belief system). The belief system is a danger system that updates for each team. It helps bots find better paths, less dangerous paths, or more important capture points. These are all in the waypoints folder and are not readable by notepad.

please note rcbot is not sturmbot so is not going to be exactly the same!

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YuriFR
post Jan 12 2014, 02:46 PM
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QUOTE(Cheeseh @ Jan 12 2014, 09:49 AM) *

Hi Yuri , thanks for the suggestions although rcbot2 already has a lot of these features, so I'd like you to try the bot first and tell me what you think would be better and most important; because a lot of this is implemented already.

For example:

Bots currently shout 'grenade' when they see a grenade and try their best to take cover, when they hear someone shout grenade, they also take cover.

In DOD:S most voice commands automatically accompany a gesture

Bots listen for footsteps and firing made by others by facing the direction of the noise but they keep walking in their current path, if they want to attack, they might follow the enemy and after that they may continue their old path

The bots will shout 'enemy behind us' but will not react yet

Bots only shout sniper when they see a friendly being killed by an enemy sniper. This will cause bots to attempt to throw grenades at the sniper including smoke grenades to take cover. Other bots might prone or slow down moment.

Bots will shout 'fire in the hole' when they throw a grenade. At the moment no-one reacts to the voice command.

With regard to memory, rcbot creates many runtime files, such as RLD (waypoint distance learning) , RCV (waypoint visual information - which helps bots know where to take cover) and RCB (belief system). The belief system is a danger system that updates for each team. It helps bots find better paths, less dangerous paths, or more important capture points. These are all in the waypoints folder and are not readable by notepad.

please note rcbot is not sturmbot so is not going to be exactly the same!


Hi, Mr.Cheeseh!

Responding to your post:
Many features of Sturmbot I listed, the Rcbot is not yet able to do (other scripts Rcbot makes halfway, as the commands that emit, but don't produce responses). I think that you can FOCUS ON (try) implementing ALL THE FEATURES LISTED (as is, on my description), FIRST, and then improve the response of the bots, one by one (comands responses), in future versions.
My BIGGEST FEAR IS: YOU FORGET trying to implement ALL the features/scripts/resources listed in the previous post ... For me, and certainly for many fans, the IDEAL EXTREME is you really recreate ALL Sturmbot resources (exactly as is/ as it was), and improve them later.
I must warn you of an important issue: there are, yet, many and many fans of Sturmbot who feel "orphans" of the same their capabilities (lacking inside of system bots for Dod:Source). I remind that many players HATED the transition from the old system game, (the Dod Classic), for new Dod:Source, and many others more, were MUCH DISAPPOINTED by the disability to use the Sturmbot system directly in Dod:Source. I myself am an example: until recently, i played the classic Dod, because i not found for Dod:S a equivalent system, as the Sturmbot. I have maintained reservations about the Dod:S largely for these reasons.
You, mr. Cheeseh, reconquer many and many fans if you recreate (and improve) the same existing features of Sturmbot (even if the Rcbot continue to present/keep a software framework different from Sturmbot). Above everything I said, Sturmbot was an excellent bot-system for Dod Classic - that alone explains a lot...

---
IMPORTANT OBSERVATIONS:

1- I decided to expose all my knowledge about Sturmbot system, for you, at once (previous post), to help / push your creative ability (if really i have this competence...). I would like to provide you a shortcut for the emergence of new insights, new scripts resources and solutions to problems, all this based on a system which has proved to be functional before (Sturmbot). Probably, many impasses/dilemmas disturb you, today, Johan "Jowo" Linde faced too, in the past (all this explains the suggestion of ​​studying the whole system of Sturmbot, as: ".dlls", ".exe" etc..).

2 - I forgot to write (in the previous post), another existing resource in Sturmbot (although did not work perfectly):
... ...
N) In the cases of confusion in the front-line and very intense shootout between armies - in situations when there is little movement on the terrain in dispute (similar cases with trench battles) -, many bots that are in prone (trying to protect herself against injury or death), begin to crawl ("crawl soldier tactic") in search of a better position to respond to fire (or to evade the same). When the bots do not find an opportunity to respond to fire, they keep crawling in search of any shelter to enemy fire. These bots will only adopt the "standing posture" (or "crouch posture"), when/(after) they find any shelter (or good position to respond to fire).
If there is not a similar script to the most current version of Rcbot, the implementation of a script like this would also be very welcomed !!!

3- Link to download Sturmbot (you need Dod Classic): http://www.dodbits.com/dods/index.php/half...s-and-downloads

4- Forgive me one more time... :
I formatted my computer recently, Dod: Source has been deleted and therefore i not update the bots system for my Dod:S. I can't remember which was the last version of Rcbot who I installed on my PC.
Anyway I'll reinstall everything, test, and then posting comments.

[[my apologies: using google translator...]]

--------------------------------------------------

Please, check out the "continuation" of this discussion above, on the link: http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1858 .
On this link, I tried to do a study and further analysis of Rcbot system to Dod: Source. There, I sought to satisfy, more properly, the suggestion of mr. Cheeseh.

THANKS ALL! smile.gif
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