All DoD:S rcbot2 wpts, as of April 18, 2013 Options

[genmac]

Roger that Cheeseh. Fully working long distance snipers would add more fun (or hatred to some hehe) to the game definitely.

Btw just tested if mg's would shoot if their on the second floor (dod_flash) unfortunately they don't to and sometimes will look somewhere else not needed as you can see here...

[madmax2]

genmac beat me to it, nice pics man.. I ran the same test with different wpt positions and got the same results, MG's won't shoot enemies from those 2 windows, either.. I think the looking down thing they do, is that they are hearing the bots or enemies below them? I'm just getting into the debug stuff, we should be able to check for that with debug, right?

[Cheeseh]

Roger that Cheeseh. Fully working long distance snipers would add more fun (or hatred to some hehe) to the game definitely.

Btw just tested if mg's would shoot if their on the second floor (dod_flash) unfortunately they don't to and sometimes will look somewhere else not needed as you can see here...

hey genmac, what might be happening here is that the bots are moving toward the mg waypoint at an angle, and relasing they are already within distance of the waypoint but at the wrong angle,... to prevent that kind of thing happening create another path before the mg waypoint perpendicular to the mg waypoint.

they also look around where noises are. e.g. someone shooting.

They also might not be able to see very well so I'm going to work on that

[genmac]

Copy that.

@madmax2....I was really hoping the mg's would shoot so really had to test it just to make sure took quite a while before they use it though.

Good thing on dod_titanic axis and mg's are shooting really well there and their below the target much farther than this so seems once their elevated they loose their aiming acquisition.

[madmax2]

Hey guys,

After spending most of my time playing around with debug today, I had an idea to crouch the snipers on top of the sandbags, and it works!!! Bots have a much better view, and they are shooting at enemys way over in the corner after i put an unreachable wpt there! Only thing is, I can't get them to go there very often, it seems. Temporarily had to remove a number of sniper tags just to test it...

Also, snipers are a bit exposed, so the allies have no trouble seeing them, even without unreachable wpt on the window. Here's a couple pics that aren't to good, but in the 2nd pic debug shows Enemy:player, that would not happen before, it was always Enemy:none. I saw them go and snipe here about 3 times, and one bot shot 6 or more times before leaving. He was getting shot at to much I think, and didn't like it..heheh

Bad Link Removed

I started using the debug bot_goto command to get bots to go there to speed up testing, but they don't stay and just continue on to thier original goal. Is there a command to get the bots to go to a sniper or MG wpt, lets say, and stay there & use it, for testing purposes? I'll upload another test rcw soon, need to do something with the other window and tweak some things..

[genmac]

Cool! That's a very good solution much much better!
you gotta post the wpt coz that's it!

So seems the sandbags kinda hindered their views.
Let's try delete those sandbags just to check hehe.
Also now that axis sniper can see and shoot, the allies below knows that to coz they were'nt shooting as well before.

Btw I use dods dm plugin to make spawn points where I want bots to spawn at a very specific location and force them to use certain wpts/paths for checking purpose and put some noaxis/noallies to block them from going elsewhere definitely beats waiting and very satisfying as you can see immediately and as much as you like how well the bots uses the wpts hehe.

[madmax2]

Hey Genmac,

Try this out, it's not perfect but it works... .. It's 330am here, so i'm kinda tired, so heres a brief rundown... i've tried the crouch wpts on top of the sandbags a few different ways. from the inside the right window is axis sniper only, the left is nonteam defend. This way allies will sometimes go in there an look around, heheh.. A sniper tag on the corner window works to, but bots hang up in the corner some and give up sometimes. if U open the path down the stairs and trap a bot in there, and sniper tag it you will see they have a little trouble. With the path open down the stairs, it actually works pretty good. I had both tagged as sniper & defend and had 2 bots in there one time. the right position is working the best right now. I was adjusting the radius some , because if its to narrow they tend to stand up more, they still snipe but it reduces thier view range. I was thinking maybe since those crouch wpts are right against the wall , if they were moved out slightly and the radius narrowed it might work better? Just to late to try it tonite..maybe tomarrow . I Have a couple more things i want to do to this wpt anyways....

Yeah, and I think you are right about those sandbags... and do U mean the deathmatch mod for adding spawn points?

[edit]
Find the latest dod_flash axis revenge rcw here:
http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index....amp;#entry11706

Or use the latest dod_flash rcw here:
http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index....amp;#entry11747

[genmac]

Yo madmax2...Seems this map is really driving you crazy ah hehe well that's good coz that's how really good wpts get's done.

Yeah I use that plugin coz it's the fastest and most convenient way to fully test how the bots will use a certain section of wpt/paths especially those intricate ones on certain maps that drove me crazy LOL!...that's why it's very important it's working. Will use that method now to test the snipers and the allies as well to see if the combat is now fully working there.

.........

ok tested it in tdm mode with spawn points just within the combat/sniping area...looks good!...haha allies are sniped really good but they do shoot back.
here's a demo hope it works though...
http://www.mediafire.com/?izkzq8jml41gnxz
btw the view is kinda weird when you play the demo.

[madmax2]

Yo madmax2...Seems this map is really driving you crazy ah hehe well that's good coz that's how really good wpts get's done.

Heh heh, yeah it is some, most maps I waypoint on seem to allways have something that bugs me.. thanks for the demo, slick little way of testing sniper points, I'm going to have to try that out. I assume you had to remove the other spawn points? Once I removed the path down the stairs, testing wasn't taking as long. i've done that before with rcbot1, don't know why i didn't think of it earlier? Maybe to many late nights this week catching up....

Did you notice when the sniper stands up, the allied bots don't see him to well, if at all? Only when he crouchs do they splatter him with bullets... So I'll try moving those crouch wpts out from the wall, just a bit, to see if they will stay crouched? Then the sniper will have the long view to the corner too. This is the first time I used crouch & jump wpts with rcbot2, i assume they should stay crouched on a crouch wpt, like they do with rcbot1...?

There are a couple other things i may try to do on the rcw, and a couple other problem windows like these 2. Yeah , it seems those sandbags obstruct thier view to much. Probably not worth spending a whole lot more time on, since cheeseh will probably come out with a visibility fix for this sort of thing...

I need to read about the yaw, and how to use it. I used the updateyaw to try & turn the bot as he jumps on the sandbag at that corner window, but i didn't get it right, i guess? Rcbot2 may need a "stay close to" or precision flag, to slow them down at tight turns to jumps, although most the time they seem to do ok without them at tight doors and such... I still got a lot to learn about rcbot2 waypointing, the best way for me is doing it....

[genmac]

@madmax...For precision wpts I think that's rcbot_wpt_width 0 coz it 48 by default had to check this further though I really haven't use it much as I would just move the waypoint a little more to the right if they have a sharp right turn on narrow paths, really drove me crazy putting wpts in vents in dod_U471_b2_rcbot2 when they need to turn precisely or else they'll just hug the vent early on as they turn.

Yeah bro do try wpt a whole map for a full blown wpting craziness may I recommend the last 5 maps requested by emotional listed below:

dod_stug
dod_tiger2008
dod_crash
dod_dijon
dod_sora_b3

I'll probably do one or 2 of these so will just post by here which maps I'll start working on unless you already had picked your choices hehe.

As for the tdm mode spawn points, I had to delete the dod_flash.cfg tdm spawn points found at:
....day of defeat source\dod\addons\sourcemod\configs\deathmatch
Then create just the ones I needed for the test.
Here are the spawn points command to create them, quoteS from Root:

About spawnpoints: just stand where you want to add a spawnpoint and type in chat !addsp allies or axis (although no matter what team are you using in FFA mode) X amount of times and type !savesp to save them.

[madmax2]

@genmac

I think rcbot_wpt_width is to control the autopaths generated. the default is bot/player width. so when we place a wpt, paths will go thru a normal sized doorway or larger opening, but not thru a smaller opening nearby, such as a small pipe, port hole on a ship, or narrow window. I think its a minimum value, so the smaller we make it, the smaller the opening a path can pass thru automaticlly..

Yeah, i'd like to do a whole map, but my time is very limited right now, so I'm just trying to familiarize myself with the bot and how its the same or different to rcbot1 and other bots I've waypointed with. Need to do more reading on bot commands & waypointing, and then try them out. Then when i'm ready to do a full wpt, hopefully i won't have to rework mistakes, and can focus on the creative part of waypointing, etc.

For instance, I want to know a bit more about wpt yaw before i start a big project. From everything i've read so far, it just sets the bot facing direction for snipers, mg's, & defend wpts. But a yaw direction is also on every other wpt type too, including just normal nav wpts. So can yaw be useful for normal nav wpts, or jump wpts? Thats the kind of thing id like to know, before placing several hundred wpts, heh heh...

But hopefully soon I could do a full map, I'm just not there yet..

Anyways, maybe i'll get time tomarrow to work on flash some more...

Later ..

[genmac]

I see. I thought it would also make the bot to past through a wpt in a more centered fashion when doing a sharp turn. Anyway tnx for the clarification.

About the yaw well just use them the natural way you'll navigate and look ahead on the map and on narrow doors, etc.
When it comes to crossed paths I would just face the yaw in the center so bots will either go left or right or straight ahead. Also so far in my experience it's ok to wpt all the way through in the direction of the allies. Axis will use them properly and aggressive enough. I tried balancing it once, same effect but sometimes they would gather too much in the middle.

[madmax2]

I did a few more things to dod_flash rcw... I reworked the sniper perch, sniper bots still want to stand up on the sandbags (more than other classes), but they crouch & prone some too. once axis bots enter the room, they won't leave until killed. Allied bots can enter & leave as they please. Axis bots don't go up there frequently, so it doesn't seem to be a problem to force them to stay in there. Allied bots can kill them too, and only occasionally are there 2 axis in there at one time. This increases the chances of getting sniped or strafed from those windows. Watch out for rocket panzer's in there, they can shoot from the window, sometimes..

I played around with wpt radius & yaw in a few places, and did a couple things for the allies. In the process I unbalanced it for the allies, so I did a few more things for the axis, adding a number of unreachables for them in the process. I had to remove the sniper & MG tags from the house next to axis first flag, snipers & mg's were hanging out to long in there, and I saw them proning there too, more than once. I removed a snipe tag for the allies from a sandbaged window, because they won't shoot there, too (btw, it's at ground level!). I added a couple new surprises too, though they may not allways be obvious.

And genmac, I did use the deathmatch/sourcemod to make new spawns, to do some testing, thanks again. It worked good for the snipers, but when I threw in other classes, they were behaving a bit strange(in sniper perch). They seemed to want to follow the axis sniper (in the perch), and didn't want to be independent, it seemed. I think, because bots were solid, they were getting stuck to each other, and to things in the room too?

And ignor the date/time stamp on the rcw, it was updated today. Had to roll my pc clock back so I could keep working on this in steam off-line mode. Steam client updates, havn't been working well on dialup lately..

Anyways, the rcw favors the axis, but not as much as the last one. Should be more snipeing action from the perch... I'll see if I can get a decent demo recorded of the sniper perch...

[edit]
Find the latest dod_flash axis revenge rcw here:
http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index....amp;#entry11706

Or use the latest dod_flash rcw here:
http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index....amp;#entry11747

[genmac]

Madmax2...sorry bro but you should keep those guards on the first flag coz it's so easy to cap that I noticed last time I played it as on all capture point maps it's really important for each flag to have some guards there as much as possible especially the one's near their base. The grouping or coffe breakers behavior happens every time when either team gets overwhelm probably some further profile tweaks might help.

The solid player is a bug on dods dm..solution...simply change to ffa then back to tdm...that should make them non solid.

I'm almost done to Emotional wpts request...this map, dod_dijon, I don't know if I should even bother finish it since the layout kinda sucks and lots of wasted space probably much better played in ffa mode.

I won't wpt ...dod_sora_b3.... hopefully madmax2 will wpt it soon hehe.

[madmax2]

genmac,

Yeah, well what I'm doing at the first flag is kind of a hack, to get axis to be more offensive. They seemed to get overwelmed with previous rcw's. The proneing by mg's & snipers in that first house hurts axis it seemed. I'll beef up my profiles more, or use yours, and see if it eliminates that problem there? Maybe add a couple outside defend positions, if it doesn't. All of this is practice for me anyways.... btw, did you try this latest one, cause I added more defense to tank flag area. I played late last night & couldn't get to the last flag, but I wasn't trying the whole round, maybe my braveness level was too low ...

Speeking of braveness, I guess I need to max that out on all bots, to reduce proneing & camping? Cause when forward areas are capped, my mg's & snipers don't move from thier rear positions very fast/often? Seems like when thier team gets center flag, the mg should move forward to center flag defense? Being 2 areas ahead...

Axis are better now at protecting & recapping the tank flag, but they were missing that so much when I first started playing with this, I thought maybe I should try swapping the tank and center area tags? So instead of, from axis side, being areas 4,3,2,1,0, it would be 4,2,3,1,0, or maybe 4,2,0,1,3. But I take it the order makes no difference to the bots, it just seemed that way early on, cause axis frequently went to center then allied 2nd flag before the tank flag. I think I significantly reduced that behavior?...

The solid player is a bug on dods dm..solution...simply change to ffa then back to tdm...that should make them non solid.

Thanks for tip, in & out of ffa, got it...

Man, you are a wptn machine guy ... i'll look at dod_sora_b3, and see if it's something I can do? Hope it's not a huge dload... And you guys have the patience for my huge wpting slowness, heheh... might be a week or 2 before I can even start it? & steam client updates don't help me any, might have to switch back to non-steampipe...?

Later...

[genmac]

Yo Madmax2...well that's what happen when my gig got cancelled bec. of for some Unforeseen Consequences, lol, reminds me of HL hehe! Had nothing better to do so I just wpted away and kinda enjoyed those maps except dod_dijon.
It's a church map basically, so may be if he made it look more war torned it could have made me more excited to play it.

Yeah will test the wpt soon...kinda tired of stock maps for now will take a little break from them for the meantime hehe.

Yeah boosting their braveness will make them more aggressive mine are all set to 99.

Here's dod_sora_b3...21 mb.
http://dods.gamebanana.com/maps/23223
Hope you'll wpt it soon coz I won't really touch this.

Here is a very basic map you can practice on first if you like...
good also for testing purposes.
http://www.mediafire.com/?38yrnu4jennpuyz

Take your time and Enjoy wpting!

[Cheeseh]

hey madmax yeah it's really much more competitive now (dod_flash). what also needs to be doen are unreachable waypoints outside windows and above sandbags and areas where players can hide. It provides a marker for bots to throw grenades.

Furthermore you can connect normal waypoints to unreachable waypoints by using paths. Bots won't go through the path but they might look at the unreachable waypoint when moving around, which might be useful at sniper points, or camping windows

[madmax2]

what also needs to be doen are unreachable waypoints outside windows and above sandbags and areas where players can hide. It provides a marker for bots to throw grenades.

@ Cheeseh

Sure, I'll add more unreachables around the map. I know of 3 more windows at ground level, I can stand next to, shoot at bots feet, they turn & look, but never shoot back, they just run by... I'll let you know what happens... I'll do some sandbag ones too...

I'd like to here about this from you, just to be sure. Doe's the order of the areas effect the bot priorities at all? Cause the axis tank defense could use more strength, since the allies protect thier 2nd flag well..

Axis are better now at protecting & recapping the tank flag, but they were missing that so much when I first started playing with this, I thought maybe I should try swapping the tank and center area tags? So instead of, from axis side, being areas 4,3,2,1,0, it would be 4,2,3,1,0, or maybe 4,2,0,1,3. But I take it the order makes no difference to the bots, it just seemed that way early on, cause axis frequently went to center then allied 2nd flag before the tank flag. I think I significantly reduced that behavior?...

[edit]

I looked at donner & avalanche unreachables, i got a good idea where to place them on sandbags, low cover & windows. It looks like paths were only used on a few of the high up places, and none on low places.

questions re. unreachables...

1. So, really just those places that are hard for bots to see or are high up, need the paths, right?

2. Is it a waste to put paths to unreachables that are out of visibility range, or does that help bots see them?

3. Is it useful to place unreachables for snipers, to see approaching enemies, and connect paths to those. I did this in the flash rcw, I think it's helping, but not sure?

-------------------------
@ genmac & Cheeseh

I played several 20min games last night on flash (on allied team, 7vs7, evenly matched classes, but not even profiles), with my last posted rcw. the first 2 games was basicly default profiles, it wasn't to hard for me to have the majority of flags most the time. I basicly used the tank path & kept going for the axis first flag. I didn't see as many defenders in the tank area as i was expecting? I kept hiding behind the wall in the corner as axis ran up main path, waiting for my chance to go for the axis first flag. I must of made at least 6 attempts for the flag in the first game, and less in the 2nd game due to tank defense, but I allways got picked off and never got the last flag. Sometimes I would shoot axis in the back there, sometimes not, sometimes I was picked off before making the dash for the flag, and other times i'd run around the corner and one or more would be there to take me out. But as an allied player it wasn't hard to score higher.

Then I changed to genmacs default allied/axis profiles. Now this result was unexpected .. in the next 2 games, using the exact same tactics, I easily capped the axis first flag and won both games fairly fast!! So I ran a bots only observation game, and allies owned most the flags for the first half, then axis came back some in second half, but lost. I thought, well this is weird, with the default profiles, axis easily would win all games with this rcw? I think at this point is where i deleted the 4 flash tmp files, then I ran another observation game. The axis did much better this time, soundly scoreing higher than the allies, ran it again, about the same result. But I don't think axis dominated the allies like they were with the default profiles? It seems the cranked up profiles, lessened the axis ability to dominate with this rcw, or it helped the allies? Maybe less proneing was the reason, or i'm not sure if all the profiles were equal? I played a couple more games as an ally, with the new profiles, but couldn't get that last flag, and couldn't get there as frequently, it was harder to get thru middle area, & tank flag defense was a little better, but still felt weak. I still won by higher score though..

I really was wanting to make it much harder for a player to win this from the allied side, all things being equal. Then I was going to tweak it for the allies to balance it out some. So, it seems the profiles that users install, can effect the balance of the rcw? Any suggestions on this, how doe's a waypointer balance a rcw if profiles can have such an effect? Should I go with defaults, or just make sure all profiles are exactly the same, whatever level they are set to?

So, genmac, you may want to wait on testing this rcw, since I will be tweaking this more...

I'll be working on this today...

[genmac]

Yo madmax2...hehe don't worry too much on the balance factor on the gameplay with the bots...their just bots still in their beta form.

To challenge myself or make the game more balance I just add more axis if I play on the allies side or make some axis with super ubber profiles aimbotish fashion that's why if you noticed I have lots of profile variants.
I prefer more axis though coz when their too good kinda pisses me off LoL! So yeah, you really gotta costumize by hand each bot profile to suit your gaming style you want.

My rescent profile I max out my 3 axis snipers and the 2 on allies are just normal. That help the axis a little but not too much unless all 3 axis snipers are spawned.

# Bot Profile id = 19 : generated by RCBot2 Launcher
name = axis3_sniper
visionticks_clients = 32
visionticks = 255
pathticks = 255
braveness = 100
aimskill = 100
sensitivity = 20
team = 3
class = 3




My observations hehe...

1. Correct!

2. Check out dod_stug...the sniper on the church tower can't shoot no matter what I do to it. Here's what I did...
- I connected lots of unreachable from the bridge to the sniper.
- I even put 4 consecutive descending connected unreachables in the direction of the sniper view.
- Put radiuses on the unreachables.
- join the axis and noclip and went in front of the allies sniper and still he can't see me even I'm just right in front of him a little outside the window LoL!
The sniper view seems blocked bec. of the window bars in front of him I think. But on open areas with nothing blocking their view they can shoot high or low on a distant target. Try tweak it bro or re-try what I did to test it again just to make sure who knows you might getting working. I really want that sniper shooting hehe coz it's so darn cool!

3. Seems once bots can see it's target it will shoot with or without unreachables connected or not but better to put them so to help out their grenade throwing as what Cheeseh has hinted.

[madmax2]

Hey genmac,

Thanks for your feedback/obsevations. Yeah, you are probably right, i'm probably over concerned about the balance. I used to do the same as you suggest with sturmbot, just unbalance the player load. I guess I was thinking the average player might not go to all the trouble to to tweak profiles or unbalance teams to make it a challenge. But that was an assumption on my part, there are no average rcbot players, really ...

Man, on #2 you were really trying hard to get them snipin . Now thats what I call effort .. consecutive unreachables & radi ...

Well this is what i had typed up offline before I read your post...

Here's a couple dods demos for the actual rcbot2 game action around the sniper perch. Its the dod_flash_axis_revenge3 rcw. Place the 2 demo files in your dod folder. Start dods, at main menu press shift&F2 to bring up the player.

The first demo is with the default profiles. The second is with genmac's amped up profiles. my camera work gets a bit wild in the second one...

If you run them in order there shouldn't be any problems. For some reason, the second demo sometimes has a camera view problem from the ceiling. If that happens, just pause the demo, type 10 in the goto field, press the goto button, the demo will restart, press resume, and the camera position will be corrected....

Bad Link Removed

[edit]

I ran a few more bot only test games today, after deleting the rcbot2 dod_flash tmp files. Again the axis did good, they capped all the flags & won on the first game! So maybe this was part of the problem, not deleting the bot tmp files when i changed the profiles? But i also noticed when the allies get an mg at that tree next to thier 2nd flag, they can score higher & win with turned up profiles, this didn't seem to happen with default profiles, probably the allied mg's increased accuracy just makes them own that area..

I don't think this has anything to do with it, but I found one profile in genmacs defaults that was different than the rest (allies15), so i just set it to the same level as the rest, so all will be equal. I'll test with these profiles & the defaults both from now on, just need to remember to delete tmp files when switching, i guess...

I still want to hear your input/comments....

And cheeseh, still want to know about the areas question above, and if you can add anything to what genmac said? thanks
http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index....ost&p=11654