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> RCBot 0.8 Release
Cheeseh
post Apr 2 2014, 02:37 PM
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Well it's been a long time waiting for a proper release, I've been proper busy then in and out of hospital and I'm back, better give you this while I have the time to do it.

The main changes here is that the bots don't need to use sv_cheats anymore, it kinda hacks its way around.

Two Files in this release:

HPB_Bot2.dll for files in home folder
HPB_Bot2o.dll for files in parent folder of mod folder (for dedicated servers mainly)

Changes

CODE

0.80
===
all: bots don't need sv_cheats!
all: deleted rcbot_sv_cheats_warning command and other cheat related commands as they are not needed now
all: waypoint version now 4 : Waypoints made in this version won't work in older versions!
all: added rcbot welcome message (tool tip)
all: waypoint author and modifier info saved in new waypoint
all: added welcome message showing author and modifier of waypoints, author is only saved once
all: fixed far away squad members stopping when leader stops moving
all: new cvar to allow tooltips
all: tooltips for waypoints
all: new squad cvar to increase/reduce frequency of bot squads
all: player joining crash fix (teds suggestion)
all: added 'rcbot util teleport' command
all: added 'rcbot util set_teleport' command
all: added 'rcbot util god' command
all: added 'rcbot util noclip' command
all: added waypoint type 'teleport' (cheat) makes bots teleport from the teleport waypoint to the next waypoint
all: rcbot waypoint drawtype 4 will show automatically generated danger (red = dangerous) waypoints of a bots team, rcbot debug nav 1 and rcbot debug bot  must be used first.
dod:s added timeout for snipers and machine gunners if they cant deploy or zoom
dod:s allow bots to crouch when reloading at crouch or machinegun waypoints
dod:s All bot classes can snipe or deploy mg if they pickup an mg or sniper rifles
dod:s bots respond to need mg voice command
dod:s bots try to use secondary melee weapon in dod:s
dod:s MGs move up after 'move up mg' voice command
dod:s MGs move up when they see friendly killed
dod:s bots shoot breakables only if not seen enemy for a short time
tf2: hwguys don't rev minigun if they have the flag
tf2: bots don't investigate sounds in tf2 if they have the flag
tf2: bots can't hear spies attacking with knife behind them unless they know there are spies nearby
tf2: bots listen to footsteps and investigate teammates attacking
tf2: fixed bots spychecking observers
tf2: engineers less probability of changing class when they die if they have many buildings
tf2: spies try more alternative routes
tf2: engineers are more successful at building nearby teammates buildings
tf2: fixed some soldiers not rocket jumping


Please Test

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Emotional
post Apr 2 2014, 04:06 PM
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QUOTE
all: waypoint version now 4 : Waypoints made in this version won't work in older versions!

but older wpts versions will be working in 0.8 version?
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Fillmore
post Apr 2 2014, 07:39 PM
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QUOTE(Emotional @ Apr 2 2014, 04:06 PM) *

but older wpts versions will be working in 0.8 version?

That's what it says, so I'd say yes.
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madmax2
post Apr 2 2014, 11:37 PM
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Cheeseh,

Awesome, can't wait to try it out... smile.gif

The teleport waypoint sounds cool. I was trying to think of what applications it might have in DODs besides claw99's project. I was thinking maybe on some of those beach maps it might be useful to have bots teleported to the forward bunkers for a better, tougher beach defense. Or other defensive positions? It would have to be a "special" waypoint I guess, since it's kinda cheating. Any other thoughts/ideas on it's use (anyone)?

And thanks for the 'rcbot util god' & teleport commands, they will be very useful for waypointing and testing with bots.

Oh, and hope you are feeling better...

max
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Cheeseh
post Apr 3 2014, 04:02 AM
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QUOTE(madmax2 @ Apr 3 2014, 12:37 AM) *

Cheeseh,

Awesome, can't wait to try it out... smile.gif

The teleport waypoint sounds cool. I was trying to think of what applications it might have in DODs besides claw99's project. I was thinking maybe on some of those beach maps it might be useful to have bots teleported to the forward bunkers for a better, tougher beach defense. Or other defensive positions? It would have to be a "special" waypoint I guess, since it's kinda cheating. Any other thoughts/ideas on it's use (anyone)?

And thanks for the 'rcbot util god' & teleport commands, they will be very useful for waypointing and testing with bots.

Oh, and hope you are feeling better...

max


The teleport waypoint could be used for difficult to reach places for bots as you said e.g. bunkers etc. but there is no 'telefrag' checking, perhaps bots could get stuck in each other!

btw rcbot util god works on TF2 but maybe not DOD:S. The teleport command works ok in DOD:s but didn't test in tf2 recently. Noclip mode works though.
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YuriFR
post Apr 4 2014, 04:12 AM
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QUOTE(Cheeseh @ Apr 2 2014, 12:37 PM) *

Well it's been a long time waiting for a proper release, I've been proper busy then in and out of hospital and I'm back, better give you this while I have the time to do it.


Hello , mr . Cheeseh !
It's very nice to find you again! I sincerely hope you are well, and it's nothing serious.
I wish your all family (and baby) are also doing well! smile.gif

As I commonly do, I'll post some feedbacks (comments, and highlight some suggestions) on this latest version, Rcbot2 v0.8.

I ask you, (only when you have more free time), to respond the questions set in this link:

http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index....ost&p=12670
Mr. madmax2 tried to answer some questions, but other details and questions remained unanswered... and the answers maybe of interest to the community


I also ask you mr. Cheeseh: refer back again to that list of suggestions for future versions of Rcbot2; aiming to "refresh his memory", in:
http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index....ost&p=12557
It is possible that some suggestions, made there, now serve for the next version of Rcbot2! smile.gif


---


About this last version 0.8 - (only to DoD:Source):

A) The improvements that version 0.8 are remarkable! In fact, I think that the Rcbot2 is developing nicely! CONGRATULATIONS !!

B.) A NOTE: the frequency of throwing smoke bombs, against Mg-guns and Sniper, WAS GREATLY REDUCED, from version 0.76 to version 0.8 ... I don't know if this happens to anyone else, so I don't know what happen to me game, or what I did ... Simply: I almost no longer see the bots throw smoke grenades ...!
Is there any command that controls the frequency of use of smoke bombs ?

C) The suggestion of a community member (I can not remember who it was) can be created, from now, by you: add the "Displace!" command (running: bots-to-bots, humans-to-bots, or even bots-to-human). The command aims to remove the Mg-gunner from sandbags, windows etc. and the Sniper-bot from their fix-position (sights), forcing these (both) classes to advance positions (looking to implement more advanced sites).
I remembered this suggestion (coworker), because after a Mg-bot on my team implements its Mg-gun on a sandbag, I can not remove it from there (in case of my team, or myself, need fire support at an advanced map region). I tried to remove it with the command "we need an MG up here!" (also with the voice command by "Displace!" to test ), but not have any effect.

D) Did I mention these 2 points after. Again I mention because I think it is important to make improvements like that:

 d.1) Create an "appropriate escape grenades" (the idea that the bots should run away to far fetch covers, jump and throw, to escape the area-impact of the explosion and shrapnel). This suggestion must be accompanied by the "Fire in the hole!" command, when it is a case of a team member to throw a grenade nearby, (he must notify his team of the danger that implies the grenade thrown by him). In response, the bots on around should be stopped (stop walking) or hidden under cover until the explosion occurs, not to be affected [(check this behavior working in Sturmbot v1.7 for DoD - Classic)]

 d.2) Create a kind of "brief search/hunting, off course, for enemies that hide or make noises in the vicinity": yes, I know ... I had already talked about this ... I had also detailed a hypothesis about how to do this, on: http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index....ost&p=12615 (I don't know if you read this, and whether it makes sense ... ). I'm repeating about it, because I think you have the ability to make this feature to work, and certainly 'll be good!

Another idea I had recently about this is: the bot, when see a menacing enemy off the original path (the bot ran via waypoints), this bot AI (based on that idea of ​​"weights and priorities": see the link above) must recalculate the route, trying to verify if there is (or not) a handy waypoint, near the point where is the threat, and soon after (based on this "reasoning"), the bot leaves the initial route and goes in search of the paths (and intermediate waypoints) to reach that particular waypoint, which is closest to the threat (which lies outside the initial route of the bot). After slaughtering the threat, and if there are no more other threats around, the bot will return in the same way (path and waypoints), taking the old route (original route) again.

When assessing the applicability of this suggestion, do not forget the possibility of bots also use grenades in such circumstances: hidden enemy in wall holes and enemies hidden behind windows.


MAYBE MORE FOR THE FUTURE:

E) The voice command "Cease fire!" can be implemented when a friend-bot is under accidental friendly fire, independently if the shots are hitting or not their colleagues (is sufficient the noise of the bullets passing within walking distance...).
The "exposure to friendly fire" have occurred very frequently, including death of team members. For example: when a bot or various bots are set ahead and another friend group of bots is further back, and both groups are forced to open fire on any target or enemy that suddenly appears in the visual field of both groups.
The command "Cease fire!" oblige the bots to stop gun-shootings, for a short time, forcing the (friendly) bots to quickly reposition in the space, avoiding hit their friends and restart the shooting against the enemy's position, now in better situation (free field of friendly troops).


F) Less relevant enhancement: you can include the voice command "Nice Shot!" to make Rcbot further more like human behavior in situations of war: dialogues among soldiers. This is only a working hypothesis, try this: when a Sniper, or other bot/human, hits the enemy in the head ("Head-Shots"), at long distance, some bot around (randomly) will praise the "precision shooting", saying "Nice Shot!".
[The same can be done with the voice command "Thanks!", when a bot gets ammo of a partner - it should say "Thanks". I do not remember if it was already implemented or not...]



Thanks again!

[I using google translator, sorry]
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Fillmore
post Apr 4 2014, 08:14 AM
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I'd like to make a suggestion for later releases, if it is either possible or something worth accomplishing.

TF2 Engineer bots like to run to their sentry spots either through the enemy team, past a payload (if it's a PL map) or through dangerous routes. I'd like to propose that Engineers try to navigate to their build spots using paths that have less 'danger' associated with them, so they'd take longer but safer routes to their build spots. At the moment, they just go full Rambo trying to go build something.
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Emotional
post Apr 4 2014, 06:21 PM
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Hmmm, hmmm, I tested 0.8 on some maps, 1-2 round on every map. 16x16, middle level bots. My experience:

dod_argentan:
Improvement bots team interaction. Alleis now have really chance to capture final axis point, also, axis less defending.

dod_aura:
bot uses more paths, than before, more successfully capture points and defending their

dod_coire_rc3:
allies strongly reduced base defence, but now their not standing all time around first flag, rarely capturing underpass. They can capture all points. Axis too uses more paths. Unfortunately, bug with jump not fixed sad.gif

dod_cr44b3_remake:
allies really great protect base. Uses more paths (axis too), successfully resists to axis.

dod_jagd:
Bots uses more path, nice defend and attack of points. When bomb founded and bots go for defuse
they began to be shot, before they just run and defuse.

dod_harrington
allies bug, when they can not jump from home on respawn fixed and bots sucsessfully work as a team

in general:

bots too smart, than before. Better teamwork, good shooting, minor improvements. Fixed some bugs wits movement and shooting (some of them I see already in 0.72), the play was much more enjoyable and more interesting. Bugs - sometimes bots see in the sky and not react for enemy shooting; sometimes bots shooting nowhere, it happened in earlier versions, it happened in earlier versions but bots do single shots, now they can shoot the whole clip blink.gif
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madmax2
post Apr 4 2014, 11:54 PM
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Yes, I agree, there is a good amount of improvement with .8 over .76/.79, with or without squads enabled. Some of the problems I was going to report for DODs, seems to be gone or greatly diminished (Excess backwards running, and allied mg's trying to run through walls unable to find a wpt right next to them (haven't seen this in .8 at all so far))... smile.gif

As for bots looking at sky, I've seen them looking at unreachable wpts on windows above them, and also at teammates firing weapons (new behavior) from windows above, as they run underneath. This may make them vulnerable to attack sometimes. But I'll watch and see if I notice anything else going on... wink.gif

QUOTE

Cheeseh:
btw rcbot util god works on TF2 but maybe not DOD:S. The teleport command works ok in DOD:s but didn't test in tf2 recently. Noclip mode works though.

I tried the new commands on DODs. You were right, 'rcbot util noclip' works and 'rcbot util god' doe's not work... Perhaps I miss understood about the teleport command? But I could not teleport a bot. When I type "rcbot util teleport <botname>", it just teleports me to the location! Maybe there is no need to teleport bots with the command in this game, not sure?
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Cheeseh
post Apr 5 2014, 12:58 AM
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-----------YuriFR-----------

QUOTE(YuriFR @ Apr 4 2014, 05:12 AM) *

B.) A NOTE: the frequency of throwing smoke bombs, against Mg-guns and Sniper, WAS GREATLY REDUCED, from version 0.76 to version 0.8 ... I don't know if this happens to anyone else, so I don't know what happen to me game, or what I did ... Simply: I almost no longer see the bots throw smoke grenades ...!
Is there any command that controls the frequency of use of smoke bombs ?


There was no change to the smoke grenade code so perhaps its just the fact there weren't enough bots with smoke grenades at the right moment? You can use the voice command "use your grenades" or "smoke em" to increase frequency. Bots will more likely listen to you though in a squad.

QUOTE(YuriFR @ Apr 4 2014, 05:12 AM) *

C) The suggestion of a community member (I can not remember who it was) can be created, from now, by you: add the "Displace!" command (running: bots-to-bots, humans-to-bots, or even bots-to-human). The command aims to remove the Mg-gunner from sandbags, windows etc. and the Sniper-bot from their fix-position (sights), forcing these (both) classes to advance positions (looking to implement more advanced sites).
I remembered this suggestion (coworker), because after a Mg-bot on my team implements its Mg-gun on a sandbag, I can not remove it from there (in case of my team, or myself, need fire support at an advanced map region). I tried to remove it with the command "we need an MG up here!" (also with the voice command by "Displace!" to test ), but not have any effect.


Displace works although it doesn't make bots move away from MGs , all it does is make the everyone leave the squad if said by the squad leader. If you want the bot to stop MG use 'go go go'. The bot won't listen to you as much if you are not in a squad with them.


QUOTE(YuriFR @ Apr 4 2014, 05:12 AM) *

 d.1) Create an "appropriate escape grenades" (the idea that the bots should run away to far fetch covers, jump and throw, to escape the area-impact of the explosion and shrapnel). This suggestion must be accompanied by the "Fire in the hole!" command, when it is a case of a team member to throw a grenade nearby, (he must notify his team of the danger that implies the grenade thrown by him). In response, the bots on around should be stopped (stop walking) or hidden under cover until the explosion occurs, not to be affected [(check this behavior working in Sturmbot v1.7 for DoD - Classic)]


Not sure exactly what you mean by this one, you'll need to give another example

QUOTE(YuriFR @ Apr 4 2014, 05:12 AM) *

 d.2) Create a kind of "brief search/hunting, off course, for enemies that hide or make noises in the vicinity": yes, I know ... I had already talked about this ... I had also detailed a hypothesis about how to do this, on: http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index....ost&p=12615 (I don't know if you read this, and whether it makes sense ... ). I'm repeating about it, because I think you have the ability to make this feature to work, and certainly 'll be good!


At the moment they only go off course if they hear noises (footsteps or gun shots) which I think is enough. You'll need to explain the 'hypothesis' a bit simpler so something like that could be implemented. The problem when coding this is WHEN a bot should do this and WHERE, something must TRIGGER the bot into a certain behavior.

QUOTE(YuriFR @ Apr 4 2014, 05:12 AM) *

Another idea I had recently about this is: the bot, when see a menacing enemy off the original path (the bot ran via waypoints), this bot AI (based on that idea of ​​"weights and priorities": see the link above) must recalculate the route, trying to verify if there is (or not) a handy waypoint, near the point where is the threat, and soon after (based on this "reasoning"), the bot leaves the initial route and goes in search of the paths (and intermediate waypoints) to reach that particular waypoint, which is closest to the threat (which lies outside the initial route of the bot). After slaughtering the threat, and if there are no more other threats around, the bot will return in the same way (path and waypoints), taking the old route (original route) again.


I think what you mean from above, if a bot is walking along a path which branches, have a quick look through the branches first before moving on?

QUOTE(YuriFR @ Apr 4 2014, 05:12 AM) *

When assessing the applicability of this suggestion, do not forget the possibility of bots also use grenades in such circumstances: hidden enemy in wall holes and enemies hidden behind windows.
MAYBE MORE FOR THE FUTURE:


This could probably use a new waypoint type to make things easy

QUOTE(YuriFR @ Apr 4 2014, 05:12 AM) *

E) The voice command "Cease fire!" can be implemented when a friend-bot is under accidental friendly fire, independently if the shots are hitting or not their colleagues (is sufficient the noise of the bullets passing within walking distance...).
The "exposure to friendly fire" have occurred very frequently, including death of team members. For example: when a bot or various bots are set ahead and another friend group of bots is further back, and both groups are forced to open fire on any target or enemy that suddenly appears in the visual field of both groups.
The command "Cease fire!" oblige the bots to stop gun-shootings, for a short time, forcing the (friendly) bots to quickly reposition in the space, avoiding hit their friends and restart the shooting against the enemy's position, now in better situation (free field of friendly troops).


okay I can do this

QUOTE(YuriFR @ Apr 4 2014, 05:12 AM) *

F) Less relevant enhancement: you can include the voice command "Nice Shot!" to make Rcbot further more like human behavior in situations of war: dialogues among soldiers. This is only a working hypothesis, try this: when a Sniper, or other bot/human, hits the enemy in the head ("Head-Shots"), at long distance, some bot around (randomly) will praise the "precision shooting", saying "Nice Shot!".


Bots already say 'nice shot' when a friendly kills their enemy under low health

QUOTE(YuriFR @ Apr 4 2014, 05:12 AM) *

[The same can be done with the voice command "Thanks!", when a bot gets ammo of a partner - it should say "Thanks". I do not remember if it was already implemented or not...]
Thanks again!


Ok I can try to do this too

-----------madmax2-----------


QUOTE(madmax2 @ Apr 5 2014, 12:54 AM) *

I tried the new commands on DODs. You were right, 'rcbot util noclip' works and 'rcbot util god' doe's not work... Perhaps I miss understood about the teleport command? But I could not teleport a bot. When I type "rcbot util teleport <botname>", it just teleports me to the location! Maybe there is no need to teleport bots with the command in this game, not sure?


god works on TF2 but not on DOD:s, don't know why.

the teleport command is for you only (for now)

the teleport waypoint type is for the bots, did you try that?
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madmax2
post Apr 5 2014, 04:14 AM
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QUOTE
the teleport waypoint type is for the bots, did you try that?


I just tried it, kinda cool... It works, but it seems to be a bit touchy... At first I thought it wasn't working, bots were running through the teleport waypoint without teleporting. I thought sv_cheats needed to be on in the rcbot config or in the console, but it doesn't need sv_cheats to work. I forced them thru the teleport wpt to the destination wpt, a few teleported, but most didn't. btw, the destination is a long ways, from just outside allied spawn on dod_flash to a wpt next to the center flag. Oh, by this time I had saved the wpt & restarted a couple times, not sure if that is necessary?

Anyways, I slowed the bots down by crouch tagging the teleport wpt, more bots started teleporting, but most still pass thru and goto a normal wpt near by. Slowed down I can see they are having trouble with whatever triggers the teleport. They often pass thru and back up to the teleport wpt, for a successful teleport. So, I crouch tagged the destination wpt too, and the success rate went way up, I only saw one bot fail to teleport after that. Now they sometimes teleport when they first touch it. I tried radius 0, 10, & 30 on the teleport wpt, and just settled on 10, I couldn't see any difference. [edit] 10 was ok, but 30 seems too big, bots need to pull in closer to the teleport.

A strange thing happened at the destination, twice. I saw a shadow of a proned bot on the ground, aiming at enemies in the area it seemed, heh heh... Well it seems a proned allied mg teleported just under the surface there. The destination wpt doe's have a large radius, 50 I think? Maybe there is a map flaw there, I may of seen a bot under the surface there once before? I'll do some testing tomorrow, and move the destination and see if it happens again... [edit] this may of been caused by the un-even or angled terrain?

Teleport waypoint doe's work, but seems the bots are having trouble with the trigger and have to be slowed down for teleport waypoint to be reliable... it's still cool... cool.gif
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madmax2
post Apr 6 2014, 06:09 PM
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A few more observations on the teleport waypoint. The crouch wpt at the destination did significantly increase the teleport rate, but not to 90%. And there is a side effect to a crouch wpt at the destination, bots may land near but not on the crouch wpt. So, if it is to close to a wall or other object, bots may get stuck in it. Also, the terrain may contribute to the problem too? After a few trys I found a couple places that worked well with a crouch wpt at the destination. Flat areas or floors in buildings may be best when using a crouch wpt at the destination. If the destination is a normal wpt, it seems less likely bots will teleport in to walls nearby. Also, jump tagging the crouch wpt may reduce this side effect, but I need to check that again?

Another side effect to using the crouch wpt at the destination, is bots seem to take much longer to move off the crouch wpt as compared to a normal wpt, maybe 20 seconds longer? And while crouched there, enemies can pass by and they don't see each other (blind bots blink.gif )! It seems about the time they are going to stand up & start moving they will start shooting at each other laugh.gif . This won't be obvious with a normal wpt at the destination, as bots start moving shortly after landing on a normal destination wpt.

Adjusting the entry wpt to the crouch/teleport wpt may help some, placing it near the teleport wpt? I was thinking of placing the teleport wpt in a more isolated location, such as a spawn area, without any other wpts/paths nearby for the bots to see, would get them all teleporting? Perhaps have them circle back to the teleport wpt would help too? But I can't just plop a normal teleport wpt down just anywhere and expect a high rate of teleports, not the way it works now... On the other hand, there may be situations where you only want some of the bots to teleport, but then other wpts/paths should be added in that case.

I think I see this working best for teleporting from spawn areas to forward defensive positions. And the way it works now is almost good enough. I think it needs to work well enough so the destination wpt doesn't need to be crouch tagged to get a high teleport rate. I don't know if slowing their approach to the teleport wpt would be the best way to improve it, or if there is a better way?
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YuriFR
post Apr 7 2014, 11:58 PM
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QUOTE(Cheeseh @ Apr 4 2014, 10:58 PM) *

"d.1) Create an "appropriate escape grenades" (the idea that the bots should run away to far fetch covers, jump and throw, to escape the area-impact of the explosion and shrapnel). This suggestion must be accompanied by the "Fire in the hole!" command, when it is a case of a team member to throw a grenade nearby, (he must notify his team of the danger that implies the grenade thrown by him). In response, the bots on around should be stopped (stop walking) or hidden under cover until the explosion occurs, not to be affected [(check this behavior working in Sturmbot v1.7 for DoD - Classic)]"

Not sure exactly what you mean by this one, you'll need to give another example

[One element that must be hindering my communication is that my native language is derived from Latin ("neo-Latin language"), and not derived from the Anglo-Saxon root. I don't know the "idiomatic expressions" of the English language, so I'm "forced" to write an overly formal manner, wordy, and with the risk of not being understood. Forgive me, guys !]


Yeah, I got some examples: videos on YouTube. It took me to find some videos but I think I got some that illustrate what I mean enough with "appropriate escape grenades" (and the command "Fire in the hole!").
You only need to see the range of minutes, described for each video link:


---> The use the "Fire in the hole!" command:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEluK8i6hGY
Range: minutes 07:02 to 07:10 - Inside this range, note that there are 2 american soldiers, ahead, moving on (after making a bend in the road). One thems (on minute 07:05) decides to throw a grenade at the enemy position (who staying after the bridge ahead). For this, the soldier stops walking, yell "Fire in the hole!", crouches, and expects/wait the detonation of the explosive before you stand up again. Note that the soldier standing next to him, listening to her scream ("Fire in the hole!") also does the same thing: squats and wait for the grenade detonation. It is an "team-attitude" of mutual security, which in my opinion should exist between bots of Rcbot2, to Dod:Source.
[Note: don't bother with the explosion aspect, which looks like a smoke bomb detonation. The full version of the 1.3 Dod-Classic had a different version graphic "sprite" of Dod: Source - or then: the grenade exploded in a river below the bridge...]


---> About "escape of grenades" (links: 1-4)
Note that the behavior of all bots (Sturmbot) is always the same thing and follows this pattern: a bot, or more bots, realize/perceive the grenade on the ground, then "yelling 'Grenade!'" (+ waving/gesturing to inform your friends), run away and jump to the ground, staying on the ground and after a few seconds: raise.
See below:

1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUULZ1FOsFQ (! THIS LINK, of Genmac, IS THE MOST IMPORTANT !)
a) Range: minutes 01:34 to 01:43 - On the top right of screen, there is a group of american soldiers. This group will escape a thrown grenade (by the way: poorly thrown) by themselves and a grenade thrown by the germans (the 2 grenades are side by side, on the ground). Note that the american soldiers who saw the (two) grenades, waving to the allied soldiers around, and run in the opposite direction to the grenades site. Soon after, the soldiers running for a short time, and they jump to the floor and prone (lie/spit).
b.) Interval: minutes 01:50 to 01:58 - Note the rush of american soldiers and their screaming "Grenade!", of several soldiers with fear, after a hand-grenade was thrown among them. The soldiers who stood in the portal, ignoring the warning of his friends, all died, victims of the bomb blast. You can see that in the minute 01:57, an american soldier is still running scared , and leaps on the ground right in front of the camera ! Repeating the default-behavior of escape(-grenades), of the Sturmbot.

2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRwcmIGRIJk
a) Range: minute 18:22 to 18:29 - Notice that a British soldier run toward grenade on the ground (which is near the sandbag), seeing the grenade: he signals his friends and running back to back, in order to escape the blast (the soldier go out of the reach of the screen, but certainly on the end of his run he jumped to the ground). [Even running from the blast, the shrapnel of grenade still hit him (but not fatally...).]
b.) Range: minute 20:36 to 20:43 - for this interval is necessary folding attention to understand what happens: at around minutes 20:38 or 20:39, you can hear screaming of germans soldiers saying "Fire in the hole!" (in German). Ie: some german soldiers throws a hand-grenade, but it (grenade) does not appear on the screen because the launch was unsuccessful and falls near the german troop (which is ''hidden'' in the corner to the left of the sandbag - and of the house on the corner). You can deduce this, because soon after, the germans frightened scream: "Grenade!". And again you can see the movement (Sturmbot pattern) of running to escape the grenade blast: two germans fleeing, suddenly enter into the field of view (screen) and then jump to the ground. By sheer bad luck, the Germans were slaughtered by british guns-fire ...

3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9SaSiwS3VE
Range: minute 07:11 to 07:19 - The video is from ANOTHER GAME: Men of War (aka: MoW), but also serves as a reference for us, here (although the camera is in 3rd person in this game). The minutes mentioned above show the following scene: after the fall of an american soldier, 2 other americans run a bit and jump to the ground to escape of the bombs. Note that on the exact minute 07:16 both soldiers are on the ground with his hand on his head, an attitude that is recommended in a real combat situation, to enhance protection against lethal fragments toward the head...
There are 2 differences between MoW and Dod:S, worth mentioning here. The first is that perhaps the "hand on head" animation is not possible to reproduce in Dod:S. Another difference is that in Dod:Source is possible to make the bots go a greater distance, running, to escape the explosion (this is what was done by Johan Linde's Sturmbot in DoD-Classic). I want to draw attention, here, to the fact that other war-games exploit the "notion" of "behavior (suitable) to escape of grenades"

4 - REAL-LIFE EXAMPLES that show fear of the infantry soldiers, face of the explosions of hand-grenades (or other bombs blasts):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x10eF7JrDic -
Chinese Army: watch from the minute 00:24. The behavior of the real-soldier who is learning is exactly the same as seen in the case/example of item 3, in this topic: game "Men of War".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwBFepUkQms - Chinese Army: watch from the minute 00:03. Three soldiers flee quickly from the impact of the explosion, after the bad launch of female chinese soldier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zIFwrSXDmI - Chinese Army: watch from the minute 00:02. The soldiers are passing from hand to hand, an explosive and jump to the ground when the detonation is imminent. They also behave as in the case of item 3: game "Men of War". But the Chinese soldiers are much more CRAZY than the MoW game !!! blink.gif
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLYtit7vFAg - U.S. Army: watch from the minute 02:00. This is a prank of a Trainer, which simulates a bad throw and induces (by deception) all learners to quickly run away.


QUOTE(Cheeseh @ Apr 4 2014, 10:58 PM) *

At the moment they only go off course if they hear noises (footsteps or gun shots) which I think is enough. You'll need to explain the 'hypothesis' a bit simpler so something like that could be implemented.
([...])
I think what you mean from above, if a bot is walking along a path which branches, have a quick look through the branches first before moving on?

Yeah, more or less like that: "(...) [a bot] have a quick look through the branches first before moving on" (or: "first before continuing on its original/initial/old route").
But the full explanation would not fit here. To better understand the argument, please download the image files (compressed/pills) that I put in "mediafire" and read the "instructions" (inside). The file contains all the necessary information on this point... I believe ...
The link is:
https://www.mediafire.com/?j8gxim38zxs6446

[Important about the file in mediafire above (I forgot to detail more, into texts documents).
Notes:
1 - The understanding the argument should be based on the comparison of images/pictures ('.jpg' format): between the image "NORMAL - Hypothesis", 01 or 02, and with its respective image "Hypothesis", 01 or 02;
2 - The continuous lines in red in the image "Hypothesis 01" is an effective "choice" of the path, off initial route/course, by the AI of bot (Rc-bots). But, the dotted lines in orange, in the image "Hypothesis 02" represents a "snapshot path", fully created/invented by AI bot (bot-Rc). A path that perhaps can be a "temporary path" or "disposable path". Ie, the orangeade dotted line is not so much a "choice of bots" but is more of a "creation of bots" - this difference is the meaning that I tried to convey, from the pictures in the mediafire files.
]


QUOTE(Cheeseh @ Apr 4 2014, 10:58 PM) *

This could probably use a new waypoint type to make things easy

I have an opinion in this regard ("new waypoint type"): I think the more is used specific wayponints to cause/force the bots to act a certain way, it becomes the game-matches with Rc-bots more and more PREDICTABLE. It is only my personal opinion.
If I could program bots, I would try to "embed" (on source-code of the Rc-bots) the maximum number of possible (and varied) behaviors-responses patterns. Surely it is more complicated to do this, but maybe make the dynamic of each match (with Rc-bots) to be much less (pre-)recognizable. I explain better: due to the fact that the human player can never "discover" is located where a waypoint specific (that is always determining the same behavior of the bot), since there is no more a "specific type of waypoint" inducing the bot to a certain (and same) behavioral-response (to the contrary: the behavioral response of the bots will be "embedded" in the Rc-bots source-code)

QUOTE(Cheeseh @ Apr 4 2014, 10:58 PM) *

the teleport waypoint type is for the bots, did you try that?


I found very interesting the addition of the feature "teleport waypoint". And the reason I think so is exactly the same quoted by mr. madmax2: "I was thinking maybe on some of those beach maps it might be useful to have bots teleported to the forward bunkers for a better, tougher beach defense."
In fact, this type of waypoint will help create the impression of a strong defense, in certain maps (and certain site of certain maps). One notorious case is level based on the invasion of Omaha Beach (eg: dod_strand), where it is necessary to simulate a very strong german line of defense (lots of soldiers in line) and same time with persistent-fire. For this example, the axis bots can not waste time traveling long distances to reach the Bunkers, aiming to replace losses on the German side, because according to the actual historical records of the battle at Omaha, there was a line/defensive barrier continuous and persistent (composed of machine guns, mortars, artillery etc). The "teleport waypoint" is capable of simulating these characteristics defenses mentioned (which are at the same time: "continuous lines", "massive defense" and "persistent fire").
However , in my opinion , there is a little problem involving the use of "teleport waypoint" feature: the people who will create waypoints on the maps should be INSTRUCTED/EDUCATED to using the feature "teleport waypoint" VERY SPARINGLY, and only in cases (maps) in which he is seen as "VERY IMPORTANT AND NECESSARY/INDISPENSABLE" - as is the maps baseed in the invasion beaches in Normandy (eg: dod_strand).
I have a "fear" about the use of "teleport waypoint": I'm afraid that the resource be used in a banal and excessive manner. And, too, with the strict purpose of facilitating the work of "waypointers" on various maps, indiscriminately - this my "fear" makes sense, because the "teleport waypoint" in fact facilitate the work of creating paths to Rc-bots (by the way: one of the goals of the "teleport waypoint" is to facilitate the programming of these paths to bots). If this "overuse" start to happen, we will see many unrealistic (and surreal) scenes happening on maps of Dod:Source. For example: we will see soldiers disappear suddenly in front of us, we will see others bots appearing in impossible places etc. etc.
I suggest mr. Cheeseh create a kind of "spelling book" or a "manual of 'good conduct' for Rc-bots programming" ... biggrin.gif ... to guide the waypoints-programmer in order to be more economical and restrictive with resource use "teleport waypoint". Another possible method to avoid mis-uses of the feature is to restrict/fix the maximum possible number of "teleport waypoint", available for use per-map; for example: set at 3 or at most 5 the total amount of "teleport waypoint", by team. [Others values can be evaluated].

Pay attention, guys! wink.gif all these are only suggestions and that reflect my personal opinion about the matter.
I'll wait for the opinion of mr. Cheeseh, for the other Rcbot2 users and for the forum members


Thanks for attention !
smile.gif

[I using google translator, sorry]
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madmax2
post Apr 9 2014, 07:07 PM
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Hi YuriFR,

QUOTE
If this "overuse" start to happen, we will see many unrealistic (and surreal) scenes happening on maps of Dod:Source.

I agree with this statement, but there are very few active waypointers and I really don't see this becoming a problem.

QUOTE
I have a "fear" about the use of "teleport waypoint": I'm afraid that the resource be used in a banal and excessive manner. And, too, with the strict purpose of facilitating the work of "waypointers" on various maps, indiscriminately.

I can promise you, I won't do this. I'm not even sure I will have an opportunity to use it? If I did use it, it would be for something like the beach example cited. And what I would likely do, would be release 2 rcws, one with and one without the teleport wpts. So the user has the choice what works for them.

I suppose there might be some unrealistic dod map, a goofy "fun" map, say a outer space map where it could be used, too? I'm sure it would have uses in TF2 & HL2:DM as well. I also think, for the waypointer, the teleport wpt could be useful for testing hard to reach places, then removed. Such as a sniper perch bots rarely get to alive, but I would remove the teleport wpt before releasing the rcw.

Those few of us that waypoint and upload them, want our waypoints to be used and enjoyed. So to overuse it, or use it in some wacky fashion as to ruin the rcw, is kind of counter productive. Besides, users could & would post bad comments about the rcw... Good points, but for now, I don't think it's worth any worry or fear... wink.gif
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doroemon
post Apr 19 2014, 08:52 AM
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hello everyone,I have a question....
Does the "min_bots" "max_bots" not work any more?
And I can't use "rcbot" command in srcds...Please help!!!(I using HPB_bot2.dll)
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Cheeseh
post Apr 19 2014, 09:53 AM
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QUOTE(doroemon @ Apr 19 2014, 09:52 AM) *

hello everyone,I have a question....
Does the "min_bots" "max_bots" not work any more?
And I can't use "rcbot" command in srcds...Please help!!!(I using HPB_bot2.dll)
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rcbotd in dedicated server , not rcbot
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Fillmore
post Apr 19 2014, 03:48 PM
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By the way, I've noticed that winning a round of Payload Race in TF2 crashes the game now. Just wanted to inform about that.
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doroemon
post Apr 19 2014, 05:12 PM
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QUOTE(Cheeseh @ Apr 19 2014, 05:53 PM) *

rcbotd in dedicated server , not rcbot

oh Sorry....I forgot it...
but "min_bots" "max_bots" is still not working....

And,Can you make the BOT will Break the MvM TANK?
I want to play this mode with Rcbot2:
https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=235884
Thanks a lot!
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Cheeseh
post Apr 19 2014, 10:52 PM
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QUOTE(doroemon @ Apr 19 2014, 06:12 PM) *

oh Sorry....I forgot it...
but "min_bots" "max_bots" is still not working....

And,Can you make the BOT will Break the MvM TANK?
I want to play this mode with Rcbot2:
https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=235884
Thanks a lot!


rcbot2 config max_bots
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doroemon
post Apr 20 2014, 01:30 PM
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QUOTE(Cheeseh @ Apr 20 2014, 06:52 AM) *

rcbot2 config max_bots

It works~!
Cheeseh Thanks a lot!!!!
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