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> Need waypoint to ns_surface
JPiolho
post May 2 2004, 06:03 PM
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Have anybody ns_surface waypoint?
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Lyran
post May 3 2004, 12:34 AM
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Hi.

It's your lucky day smile.gif

I've been working on Ns_Surface as my 3rd waypointed map so far. Right now, the whole map can be explored by RCBots. But there's still some places I need to adjust. I personally consider it as a Beta version. It isn't completed, but I've tested it, and so far the Bots can go/walk/run everywhere.

I must warn you though, there's specific locations you'll need to look at them if you're the Commander, and give them orders/waypoints to the place you want them to go, or they'll just stick around and eventually get stuck. Not many places are like that, but I've noted the following problems:

1) Location: Cavern Hive. Problem: Bots CAN climb their way up to the platform protecting the Hive, but doing so is still tricky for them and often get stuck before climbing up there. Also, I still have NOT tested to see if they could actually reach the Hive, and then backtrack to get out of the Hive location and proceed to another place. It's a very tricky place to waypoint, at least I personally think so.

2) Location: Big Gun Hive. Problem: I've noticed the Bots can climb the ladder and go into the Big Gun and reach the Hive, but I haven't took time to test and see if they can get out of the location and the Big Gun itself, and proceed to another place. It's pretty much the same problems as the Cavern Hive ones.

Other than those somewhat major problems, I personally haven't noticed other buggy places. Note that the whole map is waypointed, at least enough for the Bots to actually be able to go everywhere. I did waypointed all the Hive locations. The waypoints themselves may not be properly done at those locations (Hives), but their Flags are correctly done for sure.

Because you ask if someone has waypointed that map, I post it. So you may verify by yourself and let me know what you noticed and whatnots.

I didn't want to post it because I usually post my work once it's completed, but right now it's playable I guess.

Take a look and see/enjoy biggrin.gif

P.S: If anyone else waypointed that map, please let me know in this thread and/or post a link of the .rcw file so I may please verify myself what I could change and re-do. Thanks.


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Attached File  ns_surface.rcw ( 16.01k ) Number of downloads: 7
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Sandman[SA]
post May 3 2004, 02:39 AM
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OK Lyran, I really only looked at MS and the large areas just outside and it's not tooooo bad. You really should learn to use the edit paths tool though.

I did noticed the lift button points. They are used correctly but you have way, way to many pathways going to and from them. I made some adjustments to the MS that should help get the marines out of the base a lot easyer. It's the getting back in is the hard part. laugh.gif

Here, have a look at what I did.


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Attached File  ns_surface.rcw ( 15.96k ) Number of downloads: 25
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Lyran
post May 3 2004, 03:57 AM
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Heya Sandman[SA] smile.gif

To the rescue again laugh.gif

Hey thanks a lot for the your work mate. I'm slowly learning since it's my 3rd map only, but I always tend to choose complex stuff to start with in about any things lol. My first try at waypointing a map was Ns_Agora...and now Ns_Surface. Well, Surface isn't difficult, it's just huge and has many large areas. It took me about 3 hours putting the basic waypoints.

Usually what I do is I play myself, as a Marine of course, without, and with a Jetpack, and see what the Bot would and should do here and there, etc. It's a long process because of the many re-do's I do myself. But it's a cool way to burn some time hehe.

And don't be surprised to see many waypoints/paths in large areas, especially. I always wanted the Bots in my hosted games to move with the best "fluidity" anywhere anytime. To give them a high number of possibilities to here and there from point "x" is always my goal. Instead of seeing them going straight from a point to another, which anyway I always end up doing simple and single path from a point to another in simple corridors. But as soon as an area is large enough for me, multiple paths apply.

I'm waypointing that way because I personally own a 3 Ghz processor and a Gig of Dual-Channel system Memory at 400 Mhz, so I don't really mind the "processing power" it takes. Perhaps it would affect lower processor's performance ? unsure.gif Can't tell, and if it'd be the case to anyone downloading my waypointed maps, I'm sorry sad.gif

Anyways, thanks again Sandman, I'm going to take a look at the changes right now.

Cya. smile.gif
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Sandman[SA]
post May 3 2004, 06:45 AM
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Actually, large waypoint files do make it harder for slower machines to process because it has to calculate every waypoint and pathway with-in it.

If at all possable, I always waypoint the most direct route because bots are slow and maybe 1 alternitive route just incase the first one has become unpassable.

And your right about one thing, This does not put much of ( if any ) strain on a Pentium 4 hyperthread processor but you gotta remember that there are people still out there on lesser machines and they want to play to.





Thankfully, I am not one of them tongue.gif

Intel P4 3.06ghz HT
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Lyran
post May 3 2004, 08:08 AM
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Hey Sandman, if I may ask ? unsure.gif

Once you'll get the time/chance to, could you please take a look at the whole map actually ? Feel free to re-do stuff, but mostly what I'd like is to get some feedback on specific places maybe ? The Big Gun Hive & The Cavern Hive locations were both tricky for me. I managed to make it so if Bots get there they can move within both Hive's area. But I know those two locations got mistakes and useless paths perhaps.

I'm just not sure right now what I could change. Well, take a look please if you'd like. I'd appreciate it a lot.

Thanks for your time.

Cya. smile.gif
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Sandman[SA]
post May 3 2004, 09:20 PM
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I will try to help you Lyran but quite frankly, this map has been deemed unplayable by both rcbot and whichbot and I'll tell you why. RCbot aliens can't climb walls and ladders and has iffy lift support, whichbots can't use lifts and teleporters at all and all bots in general can't manage large our-door areas effectively. ns_surface has all the above red flags which is why I never waypointed it in the first place.

See, knowing what the bots can and can't do also makes a difference between having an enjoyable game vs bots or a fish in a barrel shooting contest where the bots are the victoms.
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Lyran
post May 3 2004, 11:01 PM
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But one day RCBot and WhichBot will both support Lifts and Climbing at 100% I'm sure cool.gif We need to stay positive ! wink.gif

But yes I know what you mean. It's a bit useless to Waypoint maps that are considered un-playable for RCBot and/or WhichBot. But I personally don't really know all the officially considered "un-playable" maps though. So I'm trying to Waypoint what's possible to do. It's only once I see specific places that Bots can't go or is tricky for them I realize "Man this map is way too complex for them".

The sad thing is...there is no maps actually that are completely un-playable. It's always two or three locations that make them complex all of a sudden. Hive locations especially.

Of course NS maps were made with Human players in mind, not Bots. Bots is an extra, brought by someone or many persons who took their time to allow some people to test stuff and mees with things here and there about Natural Selection.

But I personally think NS has a huge lot of potential for Bots. That potential is already starting to get exploited, but I know...I'm sure it can and will go beyond what it's possible to do at the moment.

I mean, the guys responsible for either RCBot or WhichBot maybe don't realize it, but they're on something huge, potentially. Those guys can make it so "official" developers ask them permission to use the Bots and upgrade them, etc. Then the original RCBot/WhichBot creators might well get the chance to be the "official" contributors of Bot technology for Valve's games and their MOD's.

Maybe I see things in a big way, but hey...we got to Thank the RCBot/WhichBot developers. Those guys took their time for us to bring extra entertainment in an already good MOD. And I personally think those guys should keep up their already great work.

Right now not only NS and CO are in Beta form, but I'm sure RCBot is far, far away from what it could potentially be.

I agree with you Sandman, about the un-playable maps, and Ns_Surface in this case, but one day all the maps will be a cakewalk for Bots. I tell you ! laugh.gif
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