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> Breakable waypoints (Rocket)
madmax2
post May 26 2013, 04:21 PM
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Cheeseh,

So, are you making the breakable for rocket & grenade only? They are spraying bullets at it too...

The more I think about it, I kinda like the idea you had of it being rocket only, we could put unreachables there if we want them to throw grenades at it.... On hill, they have to get the nade very close to blow the wall.

So, sounds like we just use the breakables just like an openslater, cool... smile.gif

max

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@Septien
QUOTE

I just uploaded an updated version!!!

Let me know what you think.


Thanks, I got the rcw, will do... smile.gif
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Septien
post May 26 2013, 04:22 PM
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Hi Cheeseh!!! Thank you for taking the time even though its Sunday!

I'll go through your action points:

1) if the breakable has either noallies or noaxis then only the allowed team will shoot the breakable? Roger that!

2) improve bots aiming with rocket launcher? YES please!!!

3) stop shooting at breakable if already broken? (I think this is already done, but not sure if you meant this is what you want or what you observed) They ALREADY do this which is GREAT!

4) only shoot the breakable if they have a lot of ammo (i.e. don't unload ammo on the breakable) That would be nice!

BTW with openslater, sometimes it doesnt work work breakables, it just goes through and thinks the path is open even when its closed, if you use a breakable waypoint then it will check specifically that the breakable is open or not . OK! I did take the time to see openslater wpts "interact" with the breakable wpts and they worked flawlessly but if breakables work much better then breakables is the way to go!

are there any more 'action points' ? smile.gif

Not for breakables sir!

Perhaps you might want to grab the dod_hill_classis map and wpts just to like check for yourself how accurate rockets/grenades need to be. http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1768

Thank you so much Cheeseh!
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Septien
post May 26 2013, 04:46 PM
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QUOTE(madmax2 @ May 26 2013, 04:21 PM) *

Cheeseh,

So, are you making the breakable for rocket & grenade only? They are spraying bullets at it too...

The more I think about it, I kinda like the idea you had of it being rocket only, we could put unreachables there if we want them to throw grenades at it.... On hill, they have to get the nade very close to blow the wall.

So, sounds like we just use the breakables just like an openslater, cool... smile.gif

max

[edit]
@Septien
Thanks, I got the rcw, will do... smile.gif


Hi Max,

I like the idea of Rockets only for the wall too but maybe for other maps that have breakables and can be destroyed by bullets etc. having any class shoot at it would be handy. Actually, maybe it would be great to have 2 types of breakable wpts... one breakable wpt for rockets only and a second breakable wpt for everyone... but maybe in practice that might not be too practical. What do you think?

Pepois
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madmax2
post May 26 2013, 05:45 PM
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QUOTE(Septien @ May 26 2013, 09:46 AM) *

Hi Max,

I like the idea of Rockets only for the wall too but maybe for other maps that have breakables and can be destroyed by bullets etc. having any class shoot at it would be handy. Actually, maybe it would be great to have 2 types of breakable wpts... one breakable wpt for rockets only and a second breakable wpt for everyone... but maybe in practice that might not be too practical. What do you think?

Pepois

Hi Pepois,

Well, I think the only problem was detecting these walls & floors (bridge deck). They allready shoot other breakables like tables, etc, without wpts... 2 types of breakable wpts would give the waypointer the option to control what bots do, rockets only, or let all bots unload on the breakable, which would be a great option. But I just don't know how much extra codeing that makes for Cheeseh and not sure it's really needed? (I actually don't like seeing them waist ammo on chairs & tables, Seems like I saw a cvar to turn that off, or maybe thats rcbot1, can't remember?)

If they destroy the wall right away, it might be ok, but then you may rarely get to see them use a rocket on it? It just seems cooler to see them rocket things like this, and more realistic, not that this game is real... tongue.gif

I think I would like it limited to rockets only, or rockets & nades only, if we are only going to get one type of breakable wpt? My preference is rockets only, cause we can use unreachables for nades...

Regards,
max
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Septien
post May 26 2013, 06:32 PM
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QUOTE(madmax2 @ May 26 2013, 05:45 PM) *

Hi Pepois,

Well, I think the only problem was detecting these walls & floors (bridge deck). They allready shoot other breakables like tables, etc, without wpts... 2 types of breakable wpts would give the waypointer the option to control what bots do, rockets only, or let all bots unload on the breakable, which would be a great option. But I just don't know how much extra codeing that makes for Cheeseh and not sure it's really needed? (I actually don't like seeing them waist ammo on chairs & tables, Seems like I saw a cvar to turn that off, or maybe thats rcbot1, can't remember?)

If they destroy the wall right away, it might be ok, but then you may rarely get to see them use a rocket on it? It just seems cooler to see them rocket things like this, and more realistic, not that this game is real... tongue.gif

I think I would like it limited to rockets only, or rockets & nades only, if we are only going to get one type of breakable wpt? My preference is rockets only, cause we can use unreachables for nades...

Regards,
max


You're right Max!!!

Rockets it should be then!

Pepois
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madmax2
post May 26 2013, 08:31 PM
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QUOTE(Septien @ May 26 2013, 10:32 AM) *

You're right Max!!!

Rockets it should be then!

Pepois

Thanks Septien, then I think we agree smile.gif ... One other thought about this...

By limiting it to rockets only, it gives players the chance to do it themselves, with rockets or nades. We don't want to have the bots do things so quickly, players don't get the opportunity. I don't think we need to limit the rocket bot in any way, cause he must get there alive first...

max
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Septien
post May 27 2013, 01:06 AM
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QUOTE(madmax2 @ May 26 2013, 08:31 PM) *

Thanks Septien, then I think we agree smile.gif ... One other thought about this...

By limiting it to rockets only, it gives players the chance to do it themselves, with rockets or nades. We don't want to have the bots do things so quickly, players don't get the opportunity. I don't think we need to limit the rocket bot in any way, cause he must get there alive first...

max


Exactly Max! Rocket bots should be very precise and not waste the opportunity of reaching a breakable wpt and destroying it before getting shot etc. Besides the fact that if you have enabled bots to change classes in your config.ini you will not always have a rocket bot shooting at the breakable target(s).

Pepois
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madmax2
post May 27 2013, 07:08 PM
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QUOTE(Septien @ May 26 2013, 05:06 PM) *

Exactly Max! Rocket bots should be very precise and not waste the opportunity of reaching a breakable wpt and destroying it before getting shot etc. Besides the fact that if you have enabled bots to change classes in your config.ini you will not always have a rocket bot shooting at the breakable target(s).

Pepois

Pepois,

Yeah, I don't have mine set up to allow class changes. I'm set for even teams 7vs7, most of the time. There is 1 rocket class per team. New users likely wouldn't be set up that way though.

I checked out your new rcw. In the first game I saw the axis rocket class hit the wall 3 times and destroy it. It seems they can hit the wall if they come up the nearest ladder from thier spawn. In another game the wall was destroyed, but I didn't see who did it, then I saw an allied rocket class coming across the bridge! I think he delt the final hit that did it? Then he used the breach to enter the fortress, nice... smile.gif

I looked at the rcw and saw you nocliped the breakable wpt into the wall, with openslater on each side, it seemed to work fine. I don't know this for sure, but there could be maps that have walls or floors that can only be destroyed from one side?

I had an idea on how we could deal with the rocket loft, if there isn't an AI solution? We could have a rocket class only (rco) wpt to be used in combination with the breakable wpt. The waypointer would position the rco wpt at a location(s) where the target (breakable wpt) can be hit with rockets. So we would put the rco wpts either close or far away from the breakable, to account for the rocket arc. Rocket classes would not even see the breakable until they reach the rco wpt. They would only see rco wpts as a goal to goto (to destroy something). Then they would see the breakable & shoot... I suppose this could be done with or without a path to the breakable from the rco wpt. Rocket classes could proceed directly to the breakable once its destroyed if there's a path. Of coarse, I have no idea how much work this would be for cheeseh to add this?

Anyways, good results with this wpt, it will even be better when the noaxis/noallies is working. I'm looking forward to seeing cheeseh's solution. If anyone can figure it out, he can... smile.gif

max
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Septien
post May 29 2013, 01:40 AM
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QUOTE(madmax2 @ May 27 2013, 07:08 PM) *

Pepois,

Yeah, I don't have mine set up to allow class changes. I'm set for even teams 7vs7, most of the time. There is 1 rocket class per team. New users likely wouldn't be set up that way though.

I checked out your new rcw. In the first game I saw the axis rocket class hit the wall 3 times and destroy it. It seems they can hit the wall if they come up the nearest ladder from thier spawn. In another game the wall was destroyed, but I didn't see who did it, then I saw an allied rocket class coming across the bridge! I think he delt the final hit that did it? Then he used the breach to enter the fortress, nice... smile.gif

I looked at the rcw and saw you nocliped the breakable wpt into the wall, with openslater on each side, it seemed to work fine. I don't know this for sure, but there could be maps that have walls or floors that can only be destroyed from one side?

I had an idea on how we could deal with the rocket loft, if there isn't an AI solution? We could have a rocket class only (rco) wpt to be used in combination with the breakable wpt. The waypointer would position the rco wpt at a location(s) where the target (breakable wpt) can be hit with rockets. So we would put the rco wpts either close or far away from the breakable, to account for the rocket arc. Rocket classes would not even see the breakable until they reach the rco wpt. They would only see rco wpts as a goal to goto (to destroy something). Then they would see the breakable & shoot... I suppose this could be done with or without a path to the breakable from the rco wpt. Rocket classes could proceed directly to the breakable once its destroyed if there's a path. Of coarse, I have no idea how much work this would be for cheeseh to add this?

Anyways, good results with this wpt, it will even be better when the noaxis/noallies is working. I'm looking forward to seeing cheeseh's solution. If anyone can figure it out, he can... smile.gif

max



Thanks Max,

It surely will be great once Cheeseh comes with another brilliant rcbot release. I myself have continued retouching and improving the wpts for this amazing map. I guess I want to make it as good as the map, I feel like it's a big responsability on my behalf. Good thing I have such a great team to work with. Without Cheeseh's rcbot and your help and Genmac's... this wouldn't have happened!

I am quite satisfied now with the results. I got rid of bots getting stuck somewhere on the map due to falling away from the path or when engaging the enemy by filling the map with wpts making sure they didn't alter the paths/routes but rather helped getting bots back on track. I also improved the length between wpts since I noticed that if there is a big gap between them, bots will fall or get stuck somewhere more easily. Btw, I separated machine gun/sniper wpts from each other since if they are too close bots will not use more than one at the same time. In other words... You can have more than one bot using the same sniper/machinegun wpt at a given time but not two or more bots at the same time in nearby machine gun/sniper wpts if they are too close. I also improved the way they distribute and spread in the map; having them take different routes/paths according to the need (capture flag neeed to capture) otherwise they would always take the shortest route and eventually visit defend points as well as sniper/machinegun wpts.

So anyway, I'll upload it once we have Cheeseh's new rcbot.

Pepois
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genmac
post May 29 2013, 02:45 AM
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@Septien...seems you really love this dod_hill map and it's really good to know you're improving the wpts further and made Cheeseh come up with a new feature or improvements to breakables. I'll check it out.

OT...
I could have whine more on the shooting bug on dod_strand bunkers hehe but that seems to be more of map issue something Cheeseh can't do much now coz I think he already max out it's tracelines tweaks so I resorted to modding the map itself since I really love that map too and I want axis shooting mercilessly off the bunkers.
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Septien
post May 29 2013, 03:18 AM
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QUOTE(genmac @ May 29 2013, 02:45 AM) *

@Septien...seems you really love this dod_hill map and it's really good to know you're improving the wpts further and made Cheeseh come up with a new feature or improvements to breakables. I'll check it out.

OT...
I could have whine more on the shooting bug on dod_strand bunkers hehe but that seems to be more of map issue something Cheeseh can't do much now coz I think he already max out it's tracelines tweaks so I resorted to modding the map itself since I really love that map too and I want axis shooting mercilessly off the bunkers.


Hi Genmac,

I love dod_strand!!! Were you the one who made wpts for it? The wpts are great!!! And the map is my 2nd most favorite! Too bad the water textures couldn't be fixed! Could they?

Btw, I love flying! Using simulators of course (FSX & X-Plane)! Since I was a kid I learned how to navigate using VORS etc (flight simulator II, 1980s). Anyway, so I love flying WWII aircrafts; German and Allies: Messerschmitt 109s, Me262s; FokkerWulf 190s; Stuka J-u87s; B-17s; P-40s; P-38s; P-51s; Spitfires; Mosquitos etc. I also love watching WWII documentaries etc. I guess that's why dod and dods are really special for me. Specially maps like dod_strand!

Thought it would be nice to share that with you guys though it's totally out of topic smile.gif

Pepois
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genmac
post May 29 2013, 12:08 PM
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QUOTE(Septien @ May 29 2013, 03:18 AM) *

Hi Genmac,

I love dod_strand!!! Were you the one who made wpts for it? The wpts are great!!! And the map is my 2nd most favorite! Too bad the water textures couldn't be fixed! Could they?

Btw, I love flying! Using simulators of course (FSX & X-Plane)! Since I was a kid I learned how to navigate using VORS etc (flight simula Jtor II, 1980s). Anyway, so I love flying WWII aircrafts; German and Allies: Messerschmitt 109s, Me262s; FokkerWulf 190s; Stuka J-u87s; B-17s; P-40; P-38s; P-51s; Spitfires; Mosquitos etc. I also love watching WWII documentaries etc. I guess that's why dod and dods are really special for me. Specially maps like dod_strand!

Thought it would be nice to share that with you guys though it's totally out of topic smile.gif

Pepois


I started laying the basic wpts for it but couldn't complete it bec. rcbot2 beta 0.7 could not detect the other bomb areas aside the bombtoopen wpt wasn't implemented yet so Cheeseh completed the wpt once the bug were fix and I just imagine how long it took him to completely wpt it hehe.

Unfortunately the axis ain't shooting on the bunkers but I managed to find a solution. Will soon post the modded dod_strand soon and you'll be the first to check it hehe.

The water texture bug probably can be fix but I have no clue to do that since
I haven't tried mapping on source engine yet but their entity setting seems almost the same as gold source.

Yeah ww2 stuff are so cool though I wish valve would pay more attention to dods and give it some better updates like iron sights for all weapons, yeah I'm a COD player to LoL!
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Septien
post May 29 2013, 01:32 PM
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QUOTE(genmac @ May 29 2013, 12:08 PM) *

I started laying the basic wpts for it but couldn't complete it bec. rcbot2 beta 0.7 could not detect the other bomb areas aside the bombtoopen wpt wasn't implemented yet so Cheeseh completed the wpt once the bug were fix and I just imagine how long it took him to completely wpt it hehe.

Unfortunately the axis ain't shooting on the bunkers but I managed to find a solution. Will soon post the modded dod_strand soon and you'll be the first to check it hehe.

The water texture bug probably can be fix but I have no clue to do that since
I haven't tried mapping on source engine yet but their entity setting seems almost the same as gold source.

Yeah ww2 stuff are so cool though I wish valve would pay more attention to dods and give it some better updates like iron sights for all weapons, yeah I'm a COD player to LoL!


Nice!

I read at Dodsbanana someone talking about fixing the water texture, I quote him:

"Posted by Sharkbate For some reason the water texture is weird http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/9711/dodstrand0000.jpg can some one help me

I have the same issue
The texture needs "$additive" 1 in the vmt. But the texture is packed up with the map so I can't fix t :/"


It would be great if you could try to fix it Genmac!
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genmac
post May 30 2013, 01:31 AM
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Oh man really wish I could fix it but I can't do much about it since the texture seems deep inside the bsp itself so only way I know how to fix that is decompile the map first but that will create like a 100 more problems unless the decompiling tool is really really really good that's why no one really bothered. The author himself should easily fix that but seems he haven't yet.

More mapping talk if you guys don't mind hehe...I did lots of decompiling during my cs/hldm/dod mapping days mostly concentrated to de_dust, de_dust2, dod_omaha, dod_caen...ouch hehe! the decompiler really did a horrible job. it destroys the map basically so rebuilding and fixing it was more painful rather than just re-create the map from scratch which I did on de_dust and then reversed or mirrored it and here's the result ...pimping away lol!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2c8MYuP0cg

If you like you can check out my dod_dust2 7 flag cap with an additional route fully wpted already with 3 versions of sturmbot. Didn't bother release this coz I'm sure the cs/dod mapping community will flame me to death lol! They can't flame me now coz hl mods mapping is almost or dead already hehe.
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Septien
post Jun 8 2013, 07:55 PM
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Hi everyone,

I have just uploaded dod_hill_classic map and dod_sniperbridge_rc1 with Cheeseh's new Rcbot2 0.75 R2 update.

Enjoy it!
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Septien
post Jul 1 2013, 12:52 PM
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Hi Cheeseh,

How are you?

I hope you are doing great with the new family!

Anyway, I was thinking that perhaps you dont need to fix or improve the rocket bots' aiming... perhaps if you can tweak the distance when they can start shooting at the breakable wpt and make it way shorter so that they can only shoot it from like 10-30 feet away (maximun distance before shooting)... and maybe you can have them shoot at it even if they are too close and die from the explosion since if they are succesful they will die only once but then they will not have died in vain. (minimun distance starting from 1 feet)

If you could tweak it and let me test it... would be great.

I hope it doesnt require alot of effort on your behalf.

Best

Septien
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