waypointing NS 3.2 ladders, ladder problems & issues & fixes Options

[madmax2]

Topic was mainly started for waypointing ladders on NS 3.2 and the specific problems that show up in NS. But any ladder problem discussion for rcbot1 is welcome....

Basic ladder wapointing is here: http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=374

I've seen some good discussions in other threads & will add some links to them when I find them...
OK, found them, the first one took forever to locate, there is good ladder info on these pages:

LordSkitch's Ladder drawings: http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index....post&p=3719

Another ladder discussion not specific to NS here: http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index....amp;#entry12645

More Info: http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index....post&p=6666

This disscusion was moved from here: http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index....ost&p=10980
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Yep, I did some game tests, and the ladder problems happen because of some changes made in the NS3.2 mod itself, it's not rcbot. Use either rcbot dll version on NS3.2 (i.e. filebase (rcbot_mm.dll 561240 bytes 7-11-06) or Lordskitch's (Rcbot_mm.dll 1323104 bytes 8-17-08)) , and you get ladder problems, especially fades, either dll on NS3.1 and rcbots climb the ladders well. I found this in the NS3.2 changelog:

Changed ladder functionality for fades.
The fade will never stick to a ladder when actively blinking.
The fade can only climb ladders when its vertical speed is low ( between -175 and 175).

I suspect they did more than just change fades? It looks like I'll have to make adjustments to the ladder wpts, its not every ladder, just some of them, still a pain...

Sandman, If I understand you're awesome diagram, you mean something like this at the bottom:

LWP--JWP---NWP------longer path-------NWP

LWP=ladder wpt
JWP=jump wpt
NWP=normal wpt

and I assume as straight to the ladder as possible..

I do use JWP's at ladders sometimes, usually just at the problem ones.

I did find a problem ladder in ns_caged where i did that and it works great, except for skulks, which I have going around it. (Off topic: Even player skulks can't climb it, you just bounce off, its seems to be a NS3.2 bug! Put the same map in NS3.1 & the ladder works fine for skulks. wierd???)

On NS3.1, this was working pretty good on ladders where it's hard to get a straight line to it:

LWP--NWP-----SCT------

SCT=stay close to wpt

It virtually eliminates skulks getting stuck to the side of the ladder and they would run up a ladder or wallstick path perfectly.

I sometimes use LordSkitch's wallstick/ladder configuration. It seems if I change that first NWP before the LWP to a JWP, the skulks can't hit the ladder or wallstick path properly & bounce off? But it also seems, in NS3.2, a NWP may not be enough to get bots to jump on the ladder reliably?

Like you suggested, I think i'll try squeezing that first JWP (or NWP) next to the LWP a bit tighter to see if that helps (make sure it's a upward trajectory to the ladder). The JWP is definately helping fades get on at the bottom. It also helps onos get off the ladder at the top by causing them to crouch. I'd like to get a good method nailed down, but it almost seems some ladders are just different.

As for the dll version, I seemed to of missed that one, I have multiple versions on both sides of it. That version you are using seems to of come out when NS3.1 was the newest available? I guess it wouldn't matter if you are running whichbot aliens exclusivly on you're server. Did you ever try the newer rcbot dll's for rcbot aliens in classic mode? I really like the way gorges build thier hive & resource defences. If the rcw is good, they can be very fast at hive expansion.

And if you use Lordskitch's modified dll, fades won't try to blink/climb wallsticks anymore. I think it will work in NS3.1 too? I'm going to try that again. The only problem is if you don't have it, his links to it are bad. (here: http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index....showtopic=1011)

[Edit] Lordskitch's rcbot dll's are available here now http://rcbot.bots-united.com/downloads/rcb...bot_8_17_08.zip

I think most of the problems in the rcbot.dll, that you mention, are still present in the newest dll's, lift & welding issues for sure.

Later,

madmax2