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> Breakables Problems in sc4.7/4.6, more breakables info/issues
post Mar 12 2013, 01:07 AM
Post #1

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Cheeseh, you may be aware of some of this allready, I donno? Some of the debug_ent info may give some clues? In #2 below, they (svencoop/mappers?) are using super high health on the breakables, but they easily break with a crowbar!

I'm not sure if these are mapping issues or bot issues or both? I probably went a bit nuts on the images... took a while on dialup... dry.gif

Note, I do know most all of this was occuring in sc4.6 with the rcbot_debug dll, too. So, it's not new since sc4.7 & the newest rcbot release. That is, all map issues listed but polar_rescue. I will have to re-check polar_rescue in sc4.6, I don't have it documented, don't remember? I have confirmed all this is happening in sc4.7 with the new rcbot release...

Sorry, all these fileden links are dead now, maybe some day I'll fix'em... dry.gif

Breakables related information with debug:

#1. Bots seem to see breakables through walls or doors in certain places in some maps.

I first saw this waypointing blackmesaEPF in sc4.6. Here is what they are doing in polar_rescue with debug on...

Bot trying to shoot through door here, I fixed the opens later wpt on other side, so he shouldn't want to go this way. task is face enemy, but thier are no enemies on other side of door yet??:

He appears to be shooting an enemy lift??? But it's not that..

He is hitting the lift railing, but I have confirmed he is shooting at the padlock on the other side of grate even with the door closed. Enemies don't spawn in this room until door is opened (keycard 2). On a second test, I broke the padlock while the door was closed, and bots stopped shooting at the door...

This padlock opens the grate, which can only be broken from the ladder side of grate, player must go down lift first then up ladder. In an earlier test, at lift just before this one with the same setup, I saw a bot standing near the grate, trying to shoot the padlock thru the grate... In both cases, when I broke the padlock & grate opened, the bot quit shooting at it and moved on....

but when he ran out of bullets I saw him do this near the lift railing, I checked this again, there is a breakable wall (func_breakable) under the lift, bots will shoot at it when they have ammo left, from the middle of the lift too...

Debug_ent info:

Good door, no problem here...
Enemies are on other side of this door, bots don't try to shoot thru this door, func_train/flags 65536

Bad door...
This is door he trys to shoot thru, there are no enemies behind this door till it opens, func_train/flags 0

I did notice, bots shooting short bursts at walls and things randomly sometimes, in the next room (cafeteria), and in the hallway here. I found another door they shoot through too, missle room. I think this map may be a worst case test map!! blink.gif

I checked a few other doors, some are funct_train's with flags 0 & some are flags 65536.

Railing ent (Part of, same as lift entity, func_train)

grate ent (func_door)

He also tried to shoot thru this box, I don't think he has line of sight on the grate from there, but I will recheck that? [done - no line of sight]

Took these shots a while back, no debug info yet. This occurs in both versions of map for sc4.6 and sc4.7 with the latest 2 versions of rcbot, confirmed in both BlackmesaEPF maps...

Shooting thru wall here

at pop machine here, I break it they move to next wall...

shooting next wall here

I don't have a pic of it, but they are shooting at all the breakable boxes on the other side of the bridge, if I break some of the boxes the bot will stop shooting the wall & move on

Next, bots shoot the floor here

at sign here, i break it they quit shooting floor...

I don't have a pic of it, but they sometimes try to shoot thru the corner of wall (from same spot as shooting floor), towards the breakable glass at the bridge control room.

#2. Other breakables issues, these are kinda minor and may be mapping errors that rcbot can't be fixed for?

Infested2 fish tank glass, bots keep shooting this glass and won't use thier crowbar on it, even though one wack will break it. Some kind of bullet proof fish tank.. heheh...

Infested1 vent covers, bots only shoot these, even when right up against them they won't break them with the crowbar, again very high health on them.

[edit] Correction, I think maybe they do crowbar the vent covers after they have exhausted all the ammo in thier other weapons, which can take a few minutes. That may be the case with the fish tank glass too? It still doesn't make sense to me why these things should be breakable with the crowbar, but not guns. Gun damage is very slow on these items, it seems. Kind of a map problem, but when bots have 0 distance to the target, seems like they should melee too!? blink.gif [edit]

Library vent cover, if I slide the ladder over bots will climb up to it but won't crowbar it, one wack breaks it, bullet proof vent covers, sounds useful ... rolleyes.gif

Vent cover at other end, bots will stack up against it, shooting it, but won't crowbar it, blocking player from getting to it with a crowbar...

royals1 vent box, this box is breakable, but I see the problem now, it's a pushable, no wonder the bots won't break it! I'd swear that this box could not be push/pulled in sc4.5 and 4.6? Maybe I can fix this now? Maybe a non-issue.... silly me... tongue.gif

#3. Just a thought, would it be easy/possible to program another cvar for map cfg's that would give us some control over how bots respond to breakables (maybe I missed something & you are doing this allready, if so, my bad). Do you think that would make sense, or worth while to add to the bot?


rcbot config breakables 0

0 = break all breakables (default)
1 = don't break any breakables
2 = melee only (crowbar) breakables
3 = shoot only breakables

Maybe the cvar you are working on will fix this too smile.gif? Do bots see breakables as enemies, is that how it works?

Ok, I think thats it for now, If you want any more debug info on any of this, just let me know, I'll do it....
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post Mar 15 2013, 12:06 AM
Post #2

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I rechecked polar_rescue in sc4.6 with the rcbot 4.6 debug dll, it has the same problems as #1 above in sc4.7, no obvious difference. BlackmesaEPF is the same too.

In Blackmesa the bots are shooting through worldspawn. Sometimes they get past the first spot & break the pop machine, but they never get past the 2nd spot without getting hung up on shooting the wall (Unless the player destroys the boxes). I found 2 breakable boxes on the other side of bridge that they will shoot at, the rest are pushables. Note, on blackmesa, the bots are not showing any of the weird, somewhat random shooting issues that they show on polar_rescue. In blackmesa all the shooting issues that I know of are in this one area of the map.

I've seen something else very odd blink.gif in polar_rescue, near the problem door in #1, I've seen bullets coming out of the "air" when the bots were someplace else shooting at something. May be a map problem (sc4.6)? When I get some time I'll see if I can duplicate it in sc4.7 & determine what they were shooting at?
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