Latest DLL, win32 Metamod Debug dll Options

[LordSkitch]

I first started toying with the alternate path down crap on ns_lost when I was first starting out..

There was that ladder to go up to a platform that was like 10 feet long, then back down.. or you could go around where that res tower was, that you had to weld open..

Bots CONSTANTLY got stuck going up and down at the same time, and everyone complained.. so I made it a one-way-only thing.. and then decided that was crap, and they went down the ladders too slowly, so I had em walk off to the right a bit going towards the alien hive.. and I got good results with that, and I usually just had it a normal waypoint so they'd just fall...

Later on, on... ohhh god what is it.. co_kestrel I think, the main path has a large ladder to the left of the marine spawn, and with the normal waypoints they'd get stuck on the ladder, so I had to use a jump... then I decided I liked how the jump looked, more humanish I guess, so I try to make em all jumps, unless it hurts too much, then I use crouches and crap to make it more safe..

But for all I know, I saw it on your Tanith set, and emulated it without even realizing it lol

[LordSkitch]

Here's a picture of the new waypoint tactic on ns_nancy, just so you can see how it's done not in a crappy Corel 6 picture

[Gruuunt]

**Gruuunt bow's down in homage of the great Skitchy Nice one mate

[LordSkitch]

Hey, if they don't find you handsome, they should atleast find you handy.. So I gotta be extra handy.

[MarD]

Heyyo,

LMAO @Skitch: Red Green show, handyman's corner.

I also have developped a ladder WP technique for Sven Coop. I noticed the bots tend to leap from a norm waypoint to a ladder waypoint. N' to compensate, I tried a few different mixes. My most successful one is this: Place 1st waypoint pretty far away from the ladder, place 2nd waypoint aboot 1 - 1 1/2 feet away from the ladder, only 1st waypoint leads to it, place 3rd waypoint at the top of a ladder or preferrably on the ledge above the ladder. Now, the bots run from WP 1, to WP2, leap onto the ladder, n' climb up to WP 3. It's plenty darn effective in SC. I've seen sometimes bots climbing in pairs.

and for going down, it doesn't always work too good cause sometimes the bots leap going to that top waypoint n' falling off the ledge. but most of the times you don't want bots back-tracking, so it's ok.

I'll get a screenie of this later. N' post a WP file that seems to work the best for my SC style of WPing ladders.

[LordSkitch]

So, mr the Cheeseh, when can we expect you to sexify up the bots for beta 5? it's like the days of old when the alien team is a mess of battlegorges, all shooting spit from 53209 different directions lol

[Gruuunt]

I've got a request Cheeseh, I know I have asked this before, but I feel it will put the icing on the cake, although not a gameplay sexup - Whoa - Yes it would be...

It still seems pretty difficult to 'find' where to place a waypoint for the auto build 'rine portal to do it's stuff. Especially if where the CC has been placed, is in a smallish or odd-shaped area.

I know you have said it needs waypoints near to the CC, so I have tried and tried to place them in an ever increasing radius to try and establish the distance/angle etc. This method just doesn't work reliably to ensure a portal is made available for the bots to build.
Is there NO way that you cannot provide a waypoint flag. that signifies where to place the initial portal? I know there are game restrictions where it could be placed, and as with any other flag, I'm sure you could ensure the flag isn't processed if out of the CC's portal building radius.

Keeping my fingers crossed this isn't percieved as a stupid request!

[LordSkitch]

I've noticed the same thing.. and I can't come up with any coherent way to reliably place a IP-spawning waypoint... Even just waypointing the crap out of the area... On some maps, it happens disturbingly easy, on others I can't ever get it to work...

And.. this whole paragraph makes sense to me, but then again.. I just ate the hell out of some pills and who knows whats what.

[Gruuunt]

LOL my avatar again

[MarD]

Heyyo,

Cheesh, I tried your latest DLL with RCbot, n' w00t! they now can use the elevator at C4a2 for SvenCoop if the lever's down or up! GJ man!

The tentacle attacking still needs tweaking, they now ignore them alltogether. Lol, if you don't fix it np, I get a good kick outta it when bots run along all merrily until a tentacle starts slamming the ground infront of them. So now their odds of beating levels has gone up a lot since they now don't just stand there n' waste all their ammo.

I'm almost done the waypointpack dude, just doing some small fixes to my waypoints. Now that I know the good noclip opcode (I'll check your readme files, I think some say the wrong command which might've threw me off, or maybe I'm just blind ) you put in I can properly waypoint end level objective waypoints (I just place them beyond the end level points, seems to work good )

One prob I'm having is bots trying to use buttons that will kill them (eg, a button on the wall for an elevator, and it's useless since the elevator's only used in the previous level and in this one won't even move, it's more of a fault on SvenCoop's side... maybe I can ask them to fix it instead?), and they seem to ignore unreachable waypoints n' try to hit the button anyways... So at the bottom of elevator chafts I tried putting an unreachable waypoint inhopes bots will just commit suicide to respawn... no luck.. so maybe can you make a commit suicide flag for waypoitns for instances like when bots get stuck at the bottom of elevator chafts?

Another thing is for those useable objects where you have to hold down the use button to open it, they only tap it, so maybe you can look into that too please? An example is the map on SvenCoop is the one you get ambushed by marines inna pitch black room and they knock you out.

The scientist points you put in does increase their odds of beating levels, but it still needs to be tweaked. Like, bots will steal, or stop other bots following scientists (or even mine and other players, the little thieves ) and maybe make the bots goal once they get a scientist to follow them is to go to the nearest scientist waypoint and wait there for like, 10-15 seconds (so if the scientist falls behind there's some chance he can catch up).

Man I just love how you took the new HPBbot waypoint system dude, it waypoints like good ol' TEAMbot (with the pathwaypoint create1&2 and remove1&2), ahh, the old days, nice to see that system still in use eh?

Keep up the good work Cheesh, your bot makes SvenCoop, n' NS all the better.

This post has been edited by MarD: Oct 25 2004, 07:24 PM

[Cheeseh]

yeah I thought I told them bots to keep them buttons held down!

[LordSkitch]

Amidst all the changes taking place...

And hopefully thrown in those such things being the waypoint for IPs, (and it would be sexy if they would be spawned autobuilt!.. or with a waypoint on it so the bots run there first) and the administration system for the upgrades in combat..

Watching my bots fight, in particular my 4 vanguard bots, I noticed one strategy they lacked a buttload of.

Shooting the closest bad guy.

I watched one of em stand on a waypoint, shoot at a bot standing on a waypoint, that was somewhat obscured by ground alien goo crap, and a bot skulk ran around the marine 3 times chomping away...

Needless to say, the marine died

So could it be possible to have target re-aquisition based upon distance?

They also seem more interested in structures rather than players too...

[Gruuunt]

[LordSkitch]

I think the IP thing would be sexy, because on some maps it puts it in a totally obscure spot that bots have to get to/get out of, but dont normally need to get to... so they never see the unbuilt IP

[MarD]

Heyyo,

I found a crash error with RCbot... dunno what causes it, but it's not waypoints... On SvenCoop, on the map c2a5f, the bots keep crashing when they try to go to the 2nd outdoor area.. I rewaypointed it from scratch once n' that diddn't help any... it's always after the 2nd garage fight (the one where the APC comes through the wall) where the bots try to go to the next budilding.. just kills the game off... I tried to attach waypoints to this post but it wouldn't take .rcw files and .zip's... so I'll just put it on my site and link it. cause maybe this crashing is just my comp...

http://www.freewebs.com/mard_lltd/RCbot%20...for%20c2a5f.zip

FYI: I know that the bots crush themselves with the lift a lot... the bots seem to count any part of a lift as there... Cheesh, maybe you could make one for bots for "wait for lift to stop" cause this prob also happens on a few other maps... I fixed those by putting the wait for lift waypoints at the top of the lifts, not where the bots get in.

[Cheeseh]

"wait for lift to stop" waypoint is simply a "lift waypoint"

[LordSkitch]

Alright, I got a little tired of waiting for CHEESEH! to get around to it, so I'm modifying the combat code myself

(don't ever expect anything great.)

BUT..... I guess pictures speak louder than words.

[LordSkitch]

Also, I was tryin' to figure out where the hell this weird-assed lag was comin' from.. each time a bot joined, the server would just freak out...

So, after watching the server, and my screen simultaneously, I found out it was the damned megaHAL bot brains...

Apparantly, when they're over 4 meg, it slows down the server.. or atleast my server.. poor little Athlon 1.33GHz...

Smallest brain was 3.1 meg, largest was 4.2, most in the 3.9 to 4.0 area though.. so if any of you are getting lag when the bots join, that may be the culprit.

[LordSkitch]

One last picture before I go to bed...




And.. the 16 bot thing was just to increase the odds of having a high-class gestation occur. And as you can see, they did occur. I think at the most during that match, there was.. i think 6 bot onoses and 2 or 3 fades.. it was pretty cool. Been a while since I seen em in combat!

And pay no attention to those pings, the server was runnin at like 25% CPU usage during all that, they were from Russia or somethin.. all.. not speakin english and crap.

[Cheeseh]

ok well post your code changes so I can add them and stuff!

The megaHAL can become a bit too big, you can stop them from learning new chat to keep a limit on the size of the files