Natural Selection 3.2, Could there be any problems?... Options

[IHQ-Reima[DWMH]]

Before I update to the 3.2 (and when the public non-beta is out) I want to be sure that the RCBot runs fine on it. Full changelog can be found HERE.

So...would any problems occur?

[Cheeseh]

there will unlikely be any problems especially if you use the metamod version

you shoul try it out first becuaee I dont run any servers with Ns 3.2 to test

[LordSkitch]

ill tell you when it actually comes out if its compatible, i dont do betas for production servers, unless thats all i can get

[IHQ-Reima[DWMH]]

...but I run the new 4 maps (3 ns and 1 co). I can post the new waypoints to the waypoint thread when I have the waypoints tweaked

[LordSkitch]

the reason i havent waypointed those already is cause theyll probably end up changing before the final is released.

and even if its some minor tweak, they have been known to shift the ENTIRE map like 10 units along the x axis, throwing all the waypoints into the walls and crap. so i wont, and would suggest to others, dont waypoint it, atleast not well, until its actually released.

[tomes]

i have played new NS with rcbot. I noticed that old maps also need new waypoints. Bots are staying in base and do nothing, so u can for new wersion.

[LordSkitch]

the only old ones that would need new waypoints are the 6 that they updated... which probably means they shifted the whole god damn map 10 units again.

[Cheeseh]

the only old ones that would need new waypoints are the 6 that they updated... which probably means they shifted the whole god damn map 10 units again.

I'll need to implement a waypoint feature to shift all waypoints by <xyz> units !!

[LordSkitch]

lol get em to blink and fly and heal the hive first

[Liger_XT5]

I'd like to help in way pointing sometime, but I haven't played NS for awhile and recently got back in, especially after watching the video that came out on the home page.
But I did come across one problem, but from the sound of you guys, I did something wrong, No way point files are loading when I do a lan server. Ill mess with that later.

(edit: It's loading them from the halflife\nsp folder, ill look into this)

Otherwise, how hard would it be to way point the maps when they are completed in the next update?

[LordSkitch]

how hard would it be to way point the maps when they are completed in the next update?

that entirely depends on the maps.

theres a few things that mess with the bots.

complex systems.
these systems (button-activated elevators, moving platforms, airlocks etc) can make map areas inaccessible to bots, cause a lot of the time they cant complete the complex system, even if it is just "run here, hit this button, run back, wait" because they cant "see" where the objects are. whats simple to you or me isnt always simple to bots.

ladders.
theres a few situations where ladders can mess up the bots.

situation 1 - embossed ladder
these ladders stick out and bots can get stuck on the left and right side, and will stare at the ladder waypoint unable to get unstuck. im still not entirely sure how to get around this, other than trying to make the entry path to the ladder as straight as possible

situation 2 - missized ladder
these ladders will have you bouncing on the top as you try to get off of them, the only way ive been able to get the bots to successfully navigate them is by duck-jumping in the air and putting a waypoint there, then setting it to the top ladder waypoint, the bots duck as they go up the ladder and try to go up a little bit after they get to the top

situation 3 - lateral ladder
these ladders are set to the side of the target to go up. the problem with these is the waypoints need to be stuck inside the wall. you need to noclip yourself, move into the wall a ways, then drop the waypoint there.

situation 4 - texture ladder
the ladder is basically just a texture set on the wall, and the trigger texture (which is invisible) is out in front. the bots dont get stuck on these at all, provided the waypoint set is right.

now, whats a good ladder waypoint set?

ladder waypoint set (for texture ladders)
youd probably think i was drunk when i did this, but from my experience waypointing these things, this is the best setup.

1) theres a straight entry onto the ladder, thats especially important with embossed ladders.
2) theres a jump right before the ladder, which will prevent them from getting stuck at the bottom.
3) theres two different waypoints at the top, a wallstick, for skulks (they use ladder waypoints much slower for some reason) and the wallstick really needs to be the first one, then second is the ladder waypoint. the angle seems to be better when its further back, which is why the wallstick should be first.
4) the extension waypoint. bots try to take the shortest path to their target. if a skulk thinks the ladder waypoint is in that path, theyll use the ladder, and go really slow up it. so this extension makes that path decidedly longer, and skulks wont use it, it adds one or two steps to the rest of the bots, so its not slowing them down really.
5) the path continues to wherever it needs to go, in this case, i just made it a loop.

Drop-offs
a lot of maps have areas that will have your bots dropping off into a pit and dying, it can be hard to have these running right especially with skulks that have celerity as they seem to run in analog lines around the paths sometimes. you just need to keep honing those till they work right.




those are just some of the random things i could think of that would make a map hard to waypoint. im sure its all way more information than you wanted to know, but regardless of it, ill probably have the maps waypointed and on here the same day that 3.2 comes out. keep in mind they wont be done, ive got waypoint sets i started in february of 2002 that arent "done" cause i keep finding parts where the bots get stuck or a part that could be done better, etc.

[IHQ-Reima[DWMH]]

Same here... There is always something to fix with the waypoints

I learnt myself to waypoint by waypointing all the maps we have and I think that they run pretty smoothly nowadays.

We waypointed only the combat map because the ns maps are too complex for bots IMO. Many 3.1 ns maps are also too complex for bots so we don't have them on our mapcycle. I think the best ns map for rc is ns_mazion_b5 - no ladders, no lifts, no doors with buttons . ns_delta is also quite good.

lol get em to blink and fly and heal the hive first

lol atleast that healing I've seen the gorge heal....while it builds the hive it tries to heal it...so it heals

[Maxunit]

Hi there guys,

I would like to ask, if there will be a fix for the RCBot for NS 3.2 Beta 1.

I know, that the waypoints n stuff are just "fucked up" and need to be redone but i checked the console and it says something about a damaged "Brain" for the bots. What does this actually mean?

[LordSkitch]

either their megahal brain (their chatting stuff... which is awesome, but is somewhat buggy and can lead to server crashes) or their genetic algorithm brains, thats their AI.

you can delete both.

the megahal brains are the .BRN files in \rcbot\botprofiles\ select and delete all the .BRN files, and rcbot will replace them with new fresh ones that work.

to delete the genetic algorithm brains, delete the .RLD files in the \rcbot\ folder. rcbot will replace those too with new learned data.

my money would be on the megahal brains, cause i dont think RCB even considers the learned data a "brain" cause its neural networking and genetic algorithms... but either way, shut down your server before you delete the files, or the next map rcbot will replace them with the previous versions.

[Maxunit]

Thanks for the help LordSkitch, I will try this directly.

I will report, if this works for me and will solve the problems i have or what is still causing problems

[Maxunit]

Reply 2:

Thanks for the tips LordSkitch, now the rcbot works. By the way...you can use the "old" 3.1 waypoints for 3.2 Beta 1 as well, i just tested them and they indeed work like they do with 3.1.

EDIT:

Just to inform you...im using rcbot with metamod.

[anthony_g4i]

New RCBot version for Natural Selection 3.2 ?? Is coming ? RCBOT Final Release,,,, When? Some Progress ??