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genmac
Yo Cheeseh....wpt menu looks better but I can't make it work I can't even exit it even though I re-bind 9 to slot9...yeah I'm using 6-0 keys for bots stuff so probably I have to rebind them all back first.
Cheeseh
QUOTE(genmac @ May 23 2013, 05:39 AM) *

Yo Cheeseh....wpt menu looks better but I can't make it work I can't even exit it even though I re-bind 9 to slot9...yeah I'm using 6-0 keys for bots stuff so probably I have to rebind them all back first.


the bot should automaically bind all your 1 - 9 and 0 keys as , menuselect 1, menuselect 2 etc when you open the menu

it will rebind them all back to slot1 slot2 etc... the bot cannot pick up slot1 etc commands for some reason. so if it isn't binding your keys, you can use the numeric keypad and bind all the keys 0 - 9 as menuselect
genmac
Ok it's working now. Needs some getting use to though.
madmax2
Hey Cheeseh,

I did look at the waypointing menu and will give some feedback shortly.. I just need to play with it a bit more to give some useful feedback... I can say it's colorful, heh heh... smile.gif

max

[edit]
First, thanks again for working on this. I really want to give good feedback on this, so this likely won't be the end of it... but i'll start with this... here goes... wink.gif

Likes, dislikes, questions, and suggestions (DOD:s):

I like the numeric options and the fact that you show the values for wpts, such as radius right on the menus. Color is good too, but i'm not sure about the rainbow effect, maybe organize the color a bit, one or two colors per menu? Also, the dark blue is kinda hard to read on my crappy monitor. Larger text would help this...

Question blink.gif .. why does the menu float/jitter on my screen when I move? It also often cuts the numbers in half on the left side of the screen. If I look up at the sky or down at my feet, the menu moves to the center of the screen. Is it just me & my low res of 1024x768? I would like to see the menu solidly fixed in one place on the screen..

Off topic but related: Same with debug bot hud. please fix it to one place on the screen, like rcbot1, and use a seperate visual indicator for thier location, such as bot name in bright red, white is fine though. When the bot dies, i have to keep relocating it on the screen, and sometimes it's just hard to read when they are moving.

I think the area & radius menus +/- control is ok, and I could get comfortable with it. maybe a lower option on the radius menu, around 10. I use this radius a lot for sticky places in the map, or just to give them a little more freedom of movement.. I've got 10 bound, so it's not that important to me... The yaw works ok too...

Now the really important ones... navigation & order in this menu is very important...

About the givetypes menu, the order seems awkward to me. I'd like to see things such as noallies/noaxis/defend/sniper/mg grouped together and be first. I think prone/crouch should be on same page as that group too, and jump if possible? I'll think about this one more, the first page of givetype's is very important. (oh and what is health doing there? is that tf2? I don't have tf2, so i was wondering if the order was linked to that, I hope it's seperate?...)

Also very important, more & back should allways be the same keys. 0 & 9 are good, but I'd like them reversed, it feel more intuitive. So make 0=more and 9=back. the 9=back falling back to 9=exit will work nicely together...

I'll have to play around with the other options (cut, copy, paste), but they are probably ok? #8, confused me and I got lost for a while, losing all the normal wpts visibility. Until i retoggled all the settings I changed... What do you see this option useful for? The reason escapes me right now??

All in all a good start.. I'll give more feedback on this later ... thanks... smile.gif

max
Cheeseh
QUOTE(madmax2 @ May 23 2013, 07:11 PM) *

Hey Cheeseh,

I did look at the waypointing menu and will give some feedback shortly.. I just need to play with it a bit more to give some useful feedback... I can say it's colorful, heh heh... smile.gif

max

[edit]
First, thanks again for working on this. I really want to give good feedback on this, so this likely won't be the end of it... but i'll start with this... here goes... wink.gif

Likes, dislikes, questions, and suggestions (DOD:s):

I like the numeric options and the fact that you show the values for wpts, such as radius right on the menus. Color is good too, but i'm not sure about the rainbow effect, maybe organize the color a bit, one or two colors per menu? Also, the dark blue is kinda hard to read on my crappy monitor. Larger text would help this...

Question blink.gif .. why does the menu float/jitter on my screen when I move? It also often cuts the numbers in half on the left side of the screen. If I look up at the sky or down at my feet, the menu moves to the center of the screen. Is it just me & my low res of 1024x768? I would like to see the menu solidly fixed in one place on the screen..

Off topic but related: Same with debug bot hud. please fix it to one place on the screen, like rcbot1, and use a seperate visual indicator for thier location, such as bot name in bright red, white is fine though. When the bot dies, i have to keep relocating it on the screen, and sometimes it's just hard to read when they are moving.

I think the area & radius menus +/- control is ok, and I could get comfortable with it. maybe a lower option on the radius menu, around 10. I use this radius a lot for sticky places in the map, or just to give them a little more freedom of movement.. I've got 10 bound, so it's not that important to me... The yaw works ok too...

Now the really important ones... navigation & order in this menu is very important...

About the givetypes menu, the order seems awkward to me. I'd like to see things such as noallies/noaxis/defend/sniper/mg grouped together and be first. I think prone/crouch should be on same page as that group too, and jump if possible? I'll think about this one more, the first page of givetype's is very important. (oh and what is health doing there? is that tf2? I don't have tf2, so i was wondering if the order was linked to that, I hope it's seperate?...)

Also very important, more & back should allways be the same keys. 0 & 9 are good, but I'd like them reversed, it feel more intuitive. So make 0=more and 9=back. the 9=back falling back to 9=exit will work nicely together...

I'll have to play around with the other options (cut, copy, paste), but they are probably ok? #8, confused me and I got lost for a while, losing all the normal wpts visibility. Until i retoggled all the settings I changed... What do you see this option useful for? The reason escapes me right now??

All in all a good start.. I'll give more feedback on this later ... thanks... smile.gif

max


I don't know about a rainbow smile.gif but I use the colours as they are the same as the waypoints (waypoint types) and you know what colours they are. I was going to increase the brightness of the colours so that dark blue is easier to read.

For the text size I can't increase it, I am using the only useful debug overlay engine available with the plugin and it doesn't allow any input on text size. see more about the limitations below (also... menu float/jitter).

for the order of givetypes, that's the order of the flags actually are in the code, so it;s easy to code it that way rather than hard coding everything for every mod. Health givetype is still available in every mod, I can remove it from dod:s if you like. I can order the waypoint types by importance next release if you'd like to do that, let me know which waypoint types you think are most important in order and I can use your ranking.

for the menu float/jitter, I can't help that, that is a debug overlay engine issue, and this is the only way I can display a menu like this in the plugin. I added some correction cvars to suit your framerate, you'd need to find these values yourself. Look at these two cvars and tweak their values a little to make it look better on your system

rcbot_menu_update_time1
rcbot_menu_update_time2

the debug hud command doesn't use the same method as the waypoint menu, it just refreshes every second, cos if I refreshed it any quicker you'd just get a messy trail of words.

the debug overlay engine does allow text to be displayed on the screen rather than point in the game, however they are very limited and don't allow colours or even multiple lines. so you'd be left with a menu entirely on one line.

Showing where the bot is in red would be good.

The reason for making some waypoints invisible or only showing others is so that you can only focus on one waypoint type, e.g. in TF2 you might have many defends, snipers, sentry points , tele exists etc at the same area with big radii so it would be difficult to see them all altogether and change their properties. Maybe its not so useful in dod:s because there aren't so many waypoint types for it like that.

for the back/menu button, originally I had it the way you said however I preferred it the other way (the way it is now) so I guess it's a preference thing and I could add a cvar to reverse it.


Bear in mind I have to code all this with the limitations in the SDK for plugins, to be honest the SDK is piss poor for plugins.
seems more like a rant I'm afraid due to the source SDK , I don't want to blame my tools but with even poor bot support having to hack my way in to getting bots to work, I feel like ranting about it !
madmax2
Thanks for the detailed response/info... smile.gif

QUOTE

Bear in mind I have to code all this with the limitations in the SDK for plugins, to be honest the SDK is piss poor for plugins.
seems more like a rant I'm afraid due to the source SDK , I don't want to blame my tools but with even poor bot support having to hack my way in to getting bots to work, I feel like ranting about it !

Heh heh, rant away, I can only imagine some of the frustrations you encounter. Heck, steam alone frustrates me...

Oh, I forgot about the waypoint type colors (rainbow), I think you did mention that before... rolleyes.gif

I'll try the cvars, to tweak the jitter, good tip...

QUOTE

the debug overlay engine does allow text to be displayed on the screen rather than point in the game, however they are very limited and don't allow colours or even multiple lines. so you'd be left with a menu entirely on one line.

Is this feasable, getting all the debug info on one line at the top or bottom of the screen? I think I would be okay with that...? If possible?

QUOTE

for the back/menu button, originally I had it the way you said however I preferred it the other way (the way it is now) so I guess it's a preference thing and I could add a cvar to reverse it.

Heh heh, well I'm not sure if its worth the effort for one person, but I think I would like it better reversed from your preference. Maybe because I'm right handed??? wink.gif

QUOTE

Health givetype is still available in every mod, I can remove it from dod:s if you like. I can order the waypoint types by importance next release if you'd like to do that, let me know which waypoint types you think are most important in order and I can use your ranking.

Ok, I'll try to come up with something for the order.... Then others can pick it appart if they want to (give thier ideas).... And if health is not needed in dods (i'm new to dods, so i'm not sure about this), may as well remove it, or put it at the end of the list, if it's not hard to do...

I think some of the other waypointers should give some input too, especially on things like changing the debug bot hud to a single line, fixed to the screen, if its doable??

Thanks Cheeseh,

max
genmac
QUOTE
Bear in mind I have to code all this with the limitations in the SDK for plugins, to be honest the SDK is piss poor for plugins.
seems more like a rant I'm afraid due to the source SDK , I don't want to blame my tools but with even poor bot support having to hack my way in to getting bots to work, I feel like ranting about it !


Oh man, I'm no programmer but I can definitely feel your pain here and it's awesome you managed to give bot support especially to hl2dm and dods. I get the feeling that valve is starting to loose interest on the modding community where in fact without this mods people won't buy their games that has good mods/plugins in them. God help us once they start releasing DLC's LoL!

Anyway I'm not using the menus too much lately and my mannerism opening the menu has been change or stopped and just type out what I needed so can't really say much about the new menu well wasn't using it that much even before but it will surely help beginners.
madmax2
Hey genmac,

What do you think about changing the debug bot hud to single line, fixed to the screen? If it's doable? Does it bother you having it move around the screen like it is now???
Cheeseh
QUOTE(madmax2 @ May 24 2013, 05:27 AM) *

Hey genmac,

What do you think about changing the debug bot hud to single line, fixed to the screen? If it's doable? Does it bother you having it move around the screen like it is now???


hmm thanks for your suggestions anyway! Just a bit of code about this. This is the api which can be used for the screen

CODE

    virtual void AddScreenTextOverlay(float flXPos, float flYPos,float flDuration, int r, int g, int b, int a, const char *text) = 0;


the positions are 0.0 to 1.0 (0% - 100% of the screen size)
the rest are self explanatory.
but take a look at the one I use

CODE

    virtual void AddTextOverlayRGB(const Vector& origin, int line_offset, float duration, int r, int g, int b, int a, const char *format, ...) = 0;


I can specify which line, and the colour of each line, which is useful for waypoint types, I can also format the text, whereas the previous one I have to format it myself

genmac
QUOTE(madmax2 @ May 24 2013, 04:27 AM) *

Hey genmac,

What do you think about changing the debug bot hud to single line, fixed to the screen? If it's doable? Does it bother you having it move around the screen like it is now???

Hehe I don't really use that...I just go for the obvious. laugh.gif
I can't even seem to recall the exact command for that so plz do tell me
so I can check it out.


@Cheeseh...
wpt menu is definitely way way way better now that I figured it out how to use it.
Probably need some detailed explanation for first time users who might forget to stand or touch a wpt
first to make the menu work.
madmax2
QUOTE

cheeseh:
I can specify which line, and the colour of each line, which is useful for waypoint types, I can also format the text, whereas the previous one I have to format it myself

Oh okay, sounds like you allready did it the best way possible, dang source sdk limits and all... blink.gif

QUOTE

genmac:
Hehe I don't really use that...I just go for the obvious.
I can't even seem to recall the exact command for that so plz do tell me
so I can check it out.

Sure... here you go... smile.gif

First use "rcbot debug bot botname"

Then use "rcbot debug hud 1" to enable the hud on botname

QUOTE

genmac:
wpt menu is definitely way way way better now that I figured it out how to use it.
Probably need some detailed explanation for first time users who might forget to stand or touch a wpt
first to make the menu work.

Actually, it can be activated without touching a wpt (this is new I believe), then you can run over to the wpt you want to edit. Then over to another wpt you want to edit without exiting the menu, and so on... Which is a very nice feature I forgot to mention above... smile.gif
genmac
Yeah the new wpt menu is a heaven sent compared to the old one.
But I still want a solid block givetype thing hehe.
madmax2
QUOTE

Cheeseh:

I can order the waypoint types by importance next release if you'd like to do that, let me know which waypoint types you think are most important in order and I can use your ranking.



Ok, here is the waypoint menu flags order I came up with for dods:

Waypoint Flags

First page
1. noaxis
2. noallies
3. defend
4. sniper
5. machinegun
6. crouch
7. prone
8. jump

[edit] I allready thought of a change.. I reversed #1 & #2, I think those should be the same order as they appear in the game & rcbot... allies then axis... so I swapped them.... rolleyes.gif

Second page
1. unreachable
2. ladder
3. fall
4. capture
5. bombs
6. bomb to open
7. breakable
8. openslater

Third page - These appear to be for tf2 or hldm2 and may not be needed??? But leave any you think could be useful for dods now, or in the future....

area only - tf2 only? for areas that become available later, via script?
waitopen - tf2 only ... req script?
lift - tf2 & hldm2? I suppose there could besome dods map that has a functioning lift???

Of coarse 9 & 0 are reserved for back & next....

Here was my thinking on the first & second pages.. Initially it was order of high use & group like items together. On the first page in particular, I tried to add speed so you can move left to right and quickly add multiple flags. I had jump at 1 or 3 at one point, but think it is less likely to be combined with other flags.

So, if you like to give multiple flags for prone/sniper/mg, its either 1,4,5,7 or 2,4,5,7. I put defend at 3 next to noallies/noaxis just because I think defend is used more...

Crouch & prone could be either way I suppose, maybe some of you would prefer prone right under mg? I even had it that way at one point, with sniper right above it, swapped with mg. But for some reason my brain seems to be wired to think sniper then mg in that order and crouch then prone. Might be because of my key binds, heh heh? We could move prone up a slot if anyone thinks that would be better. I suppose one could over think this, it's harder than I thought it would be, and there are different ways it could be done...

With the second page, I just tried to group simular items and put high use at the top. I wanted openslater close to breakable and bomb to open. I figure unreachable is fairly high use, but are usually added later in the waypoint process and don't need a team flag, so it ended up on this page.

So nows the time for input if any other waypointers have different ideas? I think this is a good order, but maybe something could be better, and am open to changes... wink.gif

Hope I didn't forget anything... tongue.gif
max
genmac
Max listing looks a lot more organized.

Does the capture givetype truly forces the bots now to capture an area even if it ain't auto detected?
chezman
My only suggestion would be support for the insurgency mod
genmac
QUOTE(chezman @ May 29 2013, 08:57 PM) *

My only suggestion would be support for the insurgency mod

http://www.moddb.com/mods/insurgency
Hmmm mod seems dead but looks cool.
chezman
People still play it and it's still really fun.
madmax2
Hey cheeseh,

A few rcbot2 feature questions/requests... tongue.gif

1. Do you plan to add an autowaypoint option? I really like the way it works in rcbot1. It would speed up the task of doing the main routes in dods, leaving more time to setup attack/defend points, and refine the waypoint.

2. Could you add audio feedback for add/delete waypoints and create/remove paths, like in rcbot1? Not sure if others would like it, but I find it really helps....

3. Do you think a "stay close to" givetype/tag would be useful? I havn't needed it yet, but there have been places I could of used it, but I used crouch instead. I haven't done any ladders yet, so i'm not sure about this, but it might help with the issue genmac was talking about with ladders? With rcbot1, it really helps with tight right angle approaches to ladders (free standing ladders too, so they don't get behind them so much), using 3 wpts at the bottom of the ladder, something like this at the bottom:

CODE
NWP--SCT  (extreme example, usually more than 90 degrees)
      |
     NWP
      |
     LWP

It's useful for other things on rcbot1, too... (difficult jumps, pulling bots closer to wpts, tight & problem doors, etc)

4. Oh, and thanks for your work on the waypoint menu smile.gif... Is there any way you can keep next/back or back/next on 9 & 0, reserve those slots for them? They change depending on the number of items in the menu...

Or

[edit] Just had an idea about this, it might work good to move next/back to 1 & 2, then shift everything 2 slots. Then they would be right above the movement keys. Just for the menus that have multiple pages of course... Would that make it easier to keep them in the same slots from page to page? What do you think?

Later,
max
Cheeseh
QUOTE(madmax2 @ Jun 15 2013, 07:58 PM) *

Hey cheeseh,

A few rcbot2 feature questions/requests... tongue.gif

1. Do you plan to add an autowaypoint option? I really like the way it works in rcbot1. It would speed up the task of doing the main routes in dods, leaving more time to setup attack/defend points, and refine the waypoint.

2. Could you add audio feedback for add/delete waypoints and create/remove paths, like in rcbot1? Not sure if others would like it, but I find it really helps....

3. Do you think a "stay close to" givetype/tag would be useful? I havn't needed it yet, but there have been places I could of used it, but I used crouch instead. I haven't done any ladders yet, so i'm not sure about this, but it might help with the issue genmac was talking about with ladders? With rcbot1, it really helps with tight right angle approaches to ladders (free standing ladders too, so they don't get behind them so much), using 3 wpts at the bottom of the ladder, something like this at the bottom:

CODE
NWP--SCT  (extreme example, usually more than 90 degrees)
      |
     NWP
      |
     LWP

It's useful for other things on rcbot1, too... (difficult jumps, pulling bots closer to wpts, tight & problem doors, etc)

4. Oh, and thanks for your work on the waypoint menu smile.gif... Is there any way you can keep next/back or back/next on 9 & 0, reserve those slots for them? They change depending on the number of items in the menu...

Or

[edit] Just had an idea about this, it might work good to move next/back to 1 & 2, then shift everything 2 slots. Then they would be right above the movement keys. Just for the menus that have multiple pages of course... Would that make it easier to keep them in the same slots from page to page? What do you think?

Later,
max


hey madmax sry for the late reply, finally did some work today with rcbot2

autowaypointing
I took the old autowaypoint code and fit it into rcbot2 with extra stuff, it works great smile.gif

The bot will automatically add sniper points when you kill someone using a sniper rifle from afar.

It will automatically add sentry points / tele points in tf2 when you place a sentry/teleporter and flag/capture points when picking up the flag or capturing.

I'm not so sure stay close to waypoints would be too useful, I could just add code to make bots wait for a sec before they go to a ladder waypoint, shouldn't be difficult to do

I was playing a map with no waypoints, never had to use any waypoint commands, just autowaypoint and play the map myself for a bit, then the bots were off capturing flags and building sentries etc in tf2

waypoint sounds
I also added waypoint sounds, just like rcbot1

waypoint menu
as for the waypoint menu, i've still to add that option.

sprinting
I've also fixed bots sprinting in dod:s
genmac
QUOTE(Cheeseh @ Aug 1 2013, 01:32 PM) *

sprinting
I've also fixed bots sprinting in dod:s


That one really took my attention...hope to test it soon.
Btw how about hl2dm bot sprints? It's still kinda subtle there but they do sprint a little but not long enough.
madmax2
Hey Cheeseh,

Yeah, all of it sounds good, especially the autowaypointing part, which is very cool:

QUOTE
Cheeseh:
I was playing a map with no waypoints, never had to use any waypoint commands, just autowaypoint and play the map myself for a bit, then the bots were off capturing flags and building sentries etc in tf2


Sounds like, I could be out of a job, heh heh.... wink.gif

I guess i'll just pile on another request (actually more of a reminder or repeat request). I'm not sure about TF2, but in DODs I think it would be good to have bots face yaw on defend wpts, instead of the flag. It often seems better to place defend wpts in front of the flag instead of behind it (or in both locations). I'd like to control which way they face in DODs, so they can see the enemy approaching better. Doe's that make sence to you?? I think genmac wants this too?...

Anyways, thanks for the new improvements, and I look forward to trying them out... smile.gif

max
genmac
Auto wpt is very usable on wider open space maps but manual placement of wpt and paths still is the most optimize way to wpt the bot less cpu usage as well I think since I wpt the bot in a more straight forward manner and no over lapping paths unless I really need some that way bot have less paths to choose from just the ones that truly needed. smile.gif

And yeah hehe the defend wpts...as suggested if still possible just to make them face where the yaw is directed.

Also a Force Capture wpt so bots can capture areas where the flag is somewhere else unreachable by bots just like this map...dod_rouen...the flag was way way up had to make them crouch and circle around to cap it. I connected the elevated capture wpt so bots knows it's there but on
dod_hill_classic....the auto gen capture wpt inside the fortress is nowhere to be found so hope you can create a force cap wpt soon.
madmax2
QUOTE(genmac @ Aug 1 2013, 07:45 PM) *

Auto wpt is very usable on wider open space maps but manual placement of wpt and paths still is the most optimize way to wpt the bot less cpu usage as well I think since I wpt the bot in a more straight forward manner and no over lapping paths unless I really need some that way bot have less paths to choose from just the ones that truly needed. smile.gif

Hi genmac,

I agree with what you are saying, manual placement is most efficient use of CPU, and I don't like double paths either... But, Cheeseh has the autowaypoint function working pretty good in rcbot1, so you might be pleasantly surprized at how well it can work... With rcbot1, if you keep moving & plan where you are going, you won't get double paths very often. And with audio feedback, you can know where to stop moving, back track onto the placed waypoints and it won't drop new ones. Yeah, I was mainly thinking of using this for the main pathways in a map. But, rcbot1 autowpt works well in narrow places too, if you can keep moving. I usually don't use autowpt in tight places, though... On many rcws, i didn't use it at all, but then I started using it for parts of maps, and have found it to be very useful... smile.gif

rcbot2 autowaypoint sounds more advance than rcbot1, with some auto givetypes. So I'm very curious to see how well it works in rcbot2, I think it will be a good tool to have... smile.gif

max
Cheeseh
QUOTE(genmac @ Aug 2 2013, 03:45 AM) *

Auto wpt is very usable on wider open space maps but manual placement of wpt and paths still is the most optimize way to wpt the bot less cpu usage as well I think since I wpt the bot in a more straight forward manner and no over lapping paths unless I really need some that way bot have less paths to choose from just the ones that truly needed. smile.gif

And yeah hehe the defend wpts...as suggested if still possible just to make them face where the yaw is directed.

Also a Force Capture wpt so bots can capture areas where the flag is somewhere else unreachable by bots just like this map...dod_rouen...the flag was way way up had to make them crouch and circle around to cap it. I connected the elevated capture wpt so bots knows it's there but on
dod_hill_classic....the auto gen capture wpt inside the fortress is nowhere to be found so hope you can create a force cap wpt soon.


You shouldn't need to add another waypoint type. With the latest version of the bot all you should be able to do is add a capture waypoint manually and give it the correct area. Remove any other capture points with the same area. Then restart the round. If all goes well the bots should use that waypoint as the capture waypoint for the flag of the area you gave it.

btw the sprinting is still very sporadic in dod:s, can't seem to get it to last for more than a split second, but I can see they ARE sprinting
Root
Hi Cheeseh!
Good to know that RCBot is still under development and developer is active!
I'd like to request a few things in DoD:S. Those are should not be hard to implement (I already tried, and a few of those are working, but not properly sometimes). Seems like too many random seed are used in code biggrin.gif
  • Automatically +duck bots which is shooting by BAR/STG44 and thompson/MP40 (sometimes) to reduce recoil (or at least it looks more realistic). This should looks like that in bot_dod_bot.cpp
    CODE

    bool CDODBot :: handleAttack ( CBotWeapon *pWeapon, edict_t *pEnemy )
    {
            // ... Previous code there
            // It's when bot should attack
            if ( bAttack && (m_fShootTime < engine->Time()) )
            {
                primaryAttack(); // shoot
                m_fShootTime = engine->Time() + fDelay;

                // Check for current weapon
                if ((pWeapon->getID()==DOD_WEAPON_BAR)||(pWeapon->getID()==DOD_WEAPON_MP44)
                ||  (pWeapon->getID()==DOD_WEAPON_M1)||(pWeapon->getID()==DOD_WEAPON_C96)
                &&  (distanceFrom(pEnemy) > 700 ))
                {
                    // +duck if enemy is far away for 700 units?
                    duck();
                }
                else if (distanceFrom(pEnemy) < 500)
                {
                    m_pButtons->tap(IN_DUCK);
                }
            }
    }
  • Make bots less prone! They prone too offten I guess.
  • Dont undeploy MG/Rocket when enemy is around. I seen how bots are deploying/undeploying their weapons for a few times without shooting at enemy. So they looping their deploying until death or when enemy goes far away.
  • Make snipers more accurate. Snipers are easy to kill since they mostly stay at a same place. To make snipers more balanced, better accuracy is necessary.
  • Make bots not 'floating around' that much when they run somewhere. I seen many many times (especially on donner map) when bots are goes in dangerous place 'back forward' (i.e. looking back). In other words they just run at _me_ and dont look/shoot at me at all (sorry for my english, its hard to translate into english, so I hope you understand)
  • Add more commentaries into RCBot2 source code so it will be better to understand and fix whatever/make requests (at least for me) rolleyes.gif
  • Fix bomb defusing. While bots are defusing bomb, they should only defuse bomb and ignore enemies at all, or defusing may stop and both objective and a bot will be killed. Also if more three players are defusing, no more players should defuse a bomb. Otherwise defusing will stop for all those 3 players and one more.
  • Fix generic bugs with bots (when player disconnected, bots are getting kicked for 'Server is hibernating', and when they reconnect, they just run around and dont do anything, also fix a few crashes related to this thing and when bots are added before player connected, et cetera). I guess a few of them were discussed there.
I will try to make a video when I'll have more time, so it would be easier to you to understand what I meant.
Thank you so much and keep up good work! It's appeciated.
madmax2
Hey Root,

Lots of good feedback... Have you edited any of the bots profiles? If not, try turning up some of the settings on all of the profiles, or get genmac's profiles. The default profiles are set to low on many of them... Braveness needs to be higher than the defaults, it will reduce the proneing a lot. Also, other settings will help sniper accuracy... Some of the other issues may improve too?

I'm not sure, but I think I remember reading the backwards running was some what by design, bots keep looking behind, so it's harder to ambush them from behind. The profile settings may reduce this too? Try the profiles and see if it seems better or not... At one point I thought the waypoint yaw had something to do with this, but I can't really see a difference when bots are on normal waypoints, so i don't think waypoint yaw effects backwards running.

Here is an example from one of genmac's profiles. I have all my profiles turned up to this. Some settings can be higher I believe...

# Bot Profile id = 3 : generated by RCBot2 Launcher
name = allies3
visionticks_clients = 2
visionticks = 40
pathticks = 40
braveness = 99
aimskill = 99
sensitivity = 10
team = 2
class = 2

Get genmac's profiles from this post:
http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index....ost&p=11582

And take a look at this...
http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1763

btw, your english isn't bad at all, it's better than many of us yanks... biggrin.gif

@Cheeseh
I think it would be a good idea to turn up the settings in the profiles before the next full release, the proneing really doesn't seem bad to me, if the profile settings are turned up... smile.gif This seems to keep returning as a common complaint....

Btw, its good to hear capture wpts/areas are fixed... smile.gif

max
Cheeseh
QUOTE(madmax2 @ Aug 5 2013, 01:26 AM) *


Btw, its good to hear capture wpts/areas are fixed... smile.gif

max


Cheers root for the suggestions

As for the capture wpt areas, what I mean is this should work with the current version. So try it out smile.gif If it doesn't then I need to fix sth.
madmax2
QUOTE(Cheeseh @ Aug 4 2013, 07:13 PM) *

Cheers root for the suggestions

As for the capture wpt areas, what I mean is this should work with the current version. So try it out smile.gif If it doesn't then I need to fix sth.

Hey genmac,

How u been man... smile.gif I guess we need to test the capture/flag out again... Did you try as cheeseh suggests? I think set capture wpt to same area as flag, no connected path between them, restart map, etc...

[edit] Guess I just missed you... Well I'll try it out soon anyways....

wink.gif
max
Root
Thanks for the tip about profiles!
I've changed both aimskill and visionticks. Seems like bots are react way faster than in previously, and they finally won a few rounds on dod_donner map, even when capturing last CP is hard.
CPU usage was really increased! I guess its caused by visionticks. So I changed it to 73 and its working like a charm on full 32 slot server.
Bots are working so far, but I found noticeable lag:
On dod_jagd map (when axis are running out of spawn area and picking explosives automatically) server is having lag spikes until bots leaves dod_bomb_dispencer area. I have no idea why this is happening (maybe increased aimskill or visionticks or even amount of bots at all?).
If RCBot is using any hook to check whether or not bot is having a TNT, I'd recommend to disable it at all. There are no better way to check TNT than checking 4th slot in player's inventory (next after grenade one). biggrin.gif
Cheeseh
QUOTE(Root @ Aug 5 2013, 10:11 AM) *

Thanks for the tip about profiles!
I've changed both aimskill and visionticks. Seems like bots are react way faster than in previously, and they finally won a few rounds on dod_donner map, even when capturing last CP is hard.
CPU usage was really increased! I guess its caused by visionticks. So I changed it to 73 and its working like a charm on full 32 slot server.
Bots are working so far, but I found noticeable lag:
On dod_jagd map (when axis are running out of spawn area and picking explosives automatically) server is having lag spikes until bots leaves dod_bomb_dispencer area. I have no idea why this is happening (maybe increased aimskill or visionticks or even amount of bots at all?).
If RCBot is using any hook to check whether or not bot is having a TNT, I'd recommend to disable it at all. There are no better way to check TNT than checking 4th slot in player's inventory (next after grenade one). biggrin.gif


the bots check if they have tnt by checking the weapons they have, it's pretty quick
genmac
QUOTE(madmax2 @ Aug 5 2013, 05:27 AM) *

Hey genmac,

How u been man... smile.gif I guess we need to test the capture/flag out again... Did you try as cheeseh suggests? I think set capture wpt to same area as flag, no connected path between them, restart map, etc...

[edit] Guess I just missed you... Well I'll try it out soon anyways....

wink.gif
max

hehe miss you to bro...Ok I've tried that out at rouen seems working but their less aggressive on capturing the dry fountain with the flag on top compared to the connected auto gen cap flag.

Will try it on dod_wn71 but the first cap is area 0 so hope it works much better.
edit...
nope didn't work for me...bot's didn't even use the cap wpts after 2 rounds...so the auto gen cap wpts still are more effective.
Cheeseh
QUOTE(genmac @ Aug 6 2013, 11:24 AM) *

hehe miss you to bro...Ok I've tried that out at rouen seems working but their less aggressive on capturing the dry fountain with the flag on top compared to the connected auto gen cap flag.

Will try it on dod_wn71 but the first cap is area 0 so hope it works much better.
edit...
nope didn't work for me...bot's didn't even use the cap wpts after 2 rounds...so the auto gen cap wpts still are more effective.


there should only be 1 waypoint for each cap. If there are more, it will only use one
madmax2
I guess you guys may of seen this, but just in case you didn't, here are my 2 posts on capture wpts...

http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index....ost&p=12182

maybe I shouldn't of moved them? heh heh, I donno? rolleyes.gif

I had an idea about the fortress cap area on hill_classic I will check on today, but it may or may not make a difference? If it does, i'll let you know.... wink.gif

max
genmac
YEah read those hehe...but when the flag is way too distant, tagged cap wpt seems ignored most of the time but I'll re-check again seem I forgot to do some other things.
Septien
Hi Max and Genmac,

Sorry I couldn't post before, I had some domestic issues, anyway, I looked at your modified wpts for dod_classic_hill and I was very happy to see that bots capture flags perfectly inside the bunkers without needing a connection to the flag. Inside the fortress however, bots will try to capture the capture point without it being connected to the flag BUT they will NOT wait to cap it. I tried everything even erasing all waypoints inside the capture zone and leaving just 1 (the closest) to the flag with and without connecting it to the flag and removing any tags other than a capture one but still had the same result: bots don't wait for a second man to capture the flag. It's way better than previous rcbot versions since bots DO recognize the capture point, they even wave their hands like telling the rest to help capture it but again, they won't wait!

Now, I improved severely the waypoints in that capture zone and still left mgs and sniper wpts because that way mgs and snipers will try more often getting to that particular caputre zone rather than just staying forever sniping and camping. I also added multiple caputre waypoints, and some times, specially if they manage to break the breakable wall, they will go to a different capture wpt. It would seem like if they were working in teams etc.

Perhaps Cheeseh could still perfect/improve the flag/capture issue specially when there is a greater gap between both.

Anyway, I have just updated the waypoints in the Dod_hill_classic thread and in the Rcbot downloads page, let me know what you think, I'm still waiting for CharlestonN to tweak it for us. Genmac, see if you can have CharlestonN pull in that flag for us in WN71


Septien
madmax2
Hey Guys,

I got side-tracked yesterday on some other things (one being svencoop), and I didn't get a chance to do anything with dods... sorry... sad.gif

Yeah, that fortress capture seems to be a special problem? I saw one bot occasionally hold there, maybe as long as 20 seconds, not sure, but it never was long enough, or frequent enough. Most of the time they hold only a few seconds there.

In this case, for this map, I'm not sure if there is anything cheeseh can do from the coding side to make the bots be able to cap this under normal game play conditions, short of making bots stay permanent inside a capture zone? And I'm not sure if that would be good for other maps?

Septien's/genmac's previous "fixes" here worked quite well, the proneing, circle pattern, sniper/mg, etc. And the proneing is just what most human players would do anyways... Maybe cheeseh can tweak the hold time for another 30 seconds, that may help some, but they only hold intermitantly at this one location, so that won't totally fix it.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, in the end, it may have to be a waypoint solution for these special cases? Thanks Septien for the updated rcw, I will check it out sometime soon... I want to have a look at roeun too, think i'll check that out before WN-71 final, roeun was such a good game-play map for the first dod, i really liked it. smile.gif

max
Septien
Hi Max,

Probably like you mentioned, it's not worth fixing since it's only for just a couple of maps out there! One of the 2 tweaks I did request to CharlestonN was to move the fortress flag right in the middle next to the pole. And yes, I agree that it does look realistic for bots to crouch/prone in special danger zones like this one.

Septien
genmac
For dod_hill if you like I can just simply edit the capture point entity to 1 man cap and bring it down to 5 or 7 secs cap time...or keep the 2 man cap but bring it down to 1 or 2 secs cap time since sometimes it takes time for another allies to help out...what do you think?

Or ask Charles to simply put a flag at ground level as well for wn71 first bunker.
madmax2
Hey Guys,

Maybe before modifying entities, or the map, you might want to try this first??? wink.gif

Septien, I haven't had a chance to look at your new rcw yet, so I don't know what changes you made, and it was working quite well before, so this is just a demonstration of an idea I had the other day. It's still a waypoint "fix", you can add it to your waypoint if you want to, or not. It's basicly a forced "fix" that may enhance what you have already done?

The idea that I wanted to check out was, that the problem might have something to do with other goals interfering with the fortress goal. I thought it might be the wall bomb plant, but it wasn't. So I started reducing the bots options. The more I reduced them, the better they got at capping the fortress. Bots, when they can't cap the first time, tend to look for other goals it seems, so they run out to "dead ends" lets say, then return to the fortress later...

Well I hacked up the test rcw from the other day some more, and you can see the result either by adding just 2 allied rifflemen, or you can try 3 allies & 2 axis, or a full game... If the bots options are limited, then they hold much better in the cap zone. Although you can sometimes still see them leave the cap area, but they can't go far, so they return quickly. But they do cap the fort much faster now, with just one capture waypoint there.

Basicly, I ended up just forcing allied bots to stay inside the fortress once there, they won't retreat. Its now a oneway path for the allies into the fort, and 2 way for the axis, its in the tunnel under the tower... Now the allies can't see any other goals once they get in there, just the fort capture area. This obviously won't be an option in all situations, but does help here...

If you make it a 2 way path again, you can see what they do when allies are limited to the area just outside the wall, and the bunkers. They were still going out to the bomb plant area, even though I had allready removed it, so I removed the opens later path there too, and paths over the wall for allies. also removed the opens later path thru the destroyable wall. I think it's better than the last test rcw, but not as good as the forced tower/tunnel. They still get into some of that tag team running around the fort thing...

So it's a hacked up waypoint for test/demonstration only. I removed things on the outside of the fortress that probably didn't need removal. If you try anything out of this mess of a post tongue.gif , try adding the forced oneway allied path into the tower/tunnel, I think it will help a lot (btw, you will have to make it oneway for allies at the destroyable wall too). You don't need to remove the other things you have already done, that helps them cap the fort. smile.gif

max
Septien
Hi Max and Genmac and everyone hehe,

@Max
I thought of that before too but I didn't go for it since the main problem or challenge for Allies is mainly to get to the capture zone without getting killed immediately since they can "hold" or should I say... be forced to hold a bit longer by going prone, crouching around a path, camping etc. which again is part of the challenge the map offers which I think all of us enjoy. Of course it sounds like a good option since its more likely that they will probably capture the flag more frequently but I felt a bit like cheating on the Axies hehe.

@Genmac
Having a one man capturing the fortress flag sounds interesting just to see how it would affect the gameplay perhaps it would make it more even for both sides. If you could tweak it just as an experiment...maybe we could ask CharlestonN if he wouldnt mind. etc.

I will still try your wpts Max... see how they work... btw try to grab my latest update and we can all work with it... it has other changes ... hope you like them...

I have just downloaded dod_rouen... that map brings quite some memories too! I was also happy to see that mappers are showing in.... I just hope that they can appreciate the importance of having their maps brought to life by waypointing them and thus can strive to make them full compatible with rcbot!

Anyway, my fellow waypointers.... its great to be part of such a great community here.

Yours truly,
Septien
genmac
@Septien....yeah better ask Charles first since he's very active on mapping lately.


@Max...yeah the one way path will do the trick inside the fortress cap.
madmax2
QUOTE(genmac @ Aug 6 2013, 03:24 AM) *

hehe miss you to bro...Ok I've tried that out at rouen seems working but their less aggressive on capturing the dry fountain with the flag on top compared to the connected auto gen cap flag.

Will try it on dod_wn71 but the first cap is area 0 so hope it works much better.
edit...
nope didn't work for me...bot's didn't even use the cap wpts after 2 rounds...so the auto gen cap wpts still are more effective.

Hey guys,

I think genmac's observation was correct when he said the bots are more aggresive at detected capture wpts. I've spent a lot of time today playing around with different capture wpts on dod_azure. I wanted to get it right before I add in the class wpt types (snipper, defend, etc). I noticed the difference more on re-capping areas. It was really noticable at single player cap areas. I noticed axis running past a cap point on thier side of the map, that allies seem to have no trouble capping. So I moved it to the other side of the armored car, and they did better for a while, recapping it a few times, but seemed to lose interest as the game went on. All testing I did today was with 3vs3 bots, same class.

So i put the capture wpt inside the armored car, as a detected cap wpt, with paths to it from normal wpts on each side. Now the axis will come back to it & re-cap it, faster and more frequent than before.

Now with the 2 man cap at the tank in this map, I wanted bots to cap from more than one side, so the only way to do that is like the armored car, put the cap inside or on top, and connect paths. Well, I can't really see a significant difference on this cap point, between detected and tagged capture wpt. It might be because both were inside and it's hard for them to touch the cap wpt, so they are more persistant, either way? It did seem, before they were all changed to detected caps, that bots kinda prefered going to the detected caps vs the tagged. But i'm not sure about that, I was getting a bit cross-eye-ed by then... tongue.gif Maybe it needs to be one way or the other but not both, all cap points tagged caps or all detected caps, to keep them balanced?

Now another thing I noticed today (which I saw before on sora), was even after making this cap point and a couple others detected caps, bots would still sometimes run past one of thier flags they need to recap, sometimes going to the far end of the map instead of recapping a flag near thier spawn. Now the low bot count I was using today might be exagerating the symptom, because I think they select thier goal at spawn time. And since I only had 3 bots per team, there aren't enough bots for the 5 or 6 goals/flags in the map. So with more bots maybe this would not be much of a problem? But I do remember seeing it on sora, with 7vs7. So I think I'll do what I did on sora, and force bots through the capture zones, for the flags nearest their spawns. Mainly, to increase thier re-cap speed.

Septien:
QUOTE
I have just downloaded dod_rouen... that map brings quite some memories too!


Yeah, i really want to try that map out too, i'd better take a break from wptn and check it out... smile.gif

max
genmac
@max...hehe me too get cross eyed every now and then to lol!
so yeah detected cap wpt seems more reliable compared to just tagged one's.
Tzepesch
For other mods made on Source SDK Base 2xxx you could include some simple installs for the bots.
So they just know how to follow waypoints and use +attack towards enemies. This could be the first step for bots in a lot of other games than CS:S.

Came here because of FA:S and their bots: http://forums.firearms-source.com/threads/...rce-Google-Code
Cheeseh
QUOTE(Tzepesch @ Sep 27 2013, 01:09 PM) *

For other mods made on Source SDK Base 2xxx you could include some simple installs for the bots.
So they just know how to follow waypoints and use +attack towards enemies. This could be the first step for bots in a lot of other games than CS:S.

Came here because of FA:S and their bots: http://forums.firearms-source.com/threads/...rce-Google-Code


well it would be good to see some other source bots plugin source to see how they work, but this one is just blank, there is no code.

Anyway, with rcbot2 you can edit the rcbot2_mods.ini

mod = CUSTOM
steamdir = <parent game folder>
gamedir = <game folder>
bot = ZOMBIE
genmac
QUOTE(Tzepesch @ Sep 27 2013, 12:09 PM) *

For other mods made on Source SDK Base 2xxx you could include some simple installs for the bots.
So they just know how to follow waypoints and use +attack towards enemies. This could be the first step for bots in a lot of other games than CS:S.

Came here because of FA:S and their bots: http://forums.firearms-source.com/threads/...rce-Google-Code


I love FA and it's awesome bot called...Marine bots...it's wpting app is kinda tricky though but manage to make a workable one on tp_dust....lol yeah de_dust for fa haha!

Hope they do make one for FA:S or have rcbot2 support as well in the future.


Btw mp AI is big business again as big companies like activision are incoparating them fully now on black ops 1 (bots can do tdm and ffa only), Black ops 2 - bots plays all game modes and for this year...COD:Ghost has full blown mp bots with some new good stuff to it. So yeah bots are here to stay and will soon rule the world hehe!
Emotional
I have a little suggestion: may be worth to share rcbot_skill on rcbot_allies_skill and rcbot_axis skill? Explain why : on some maps very hard to win, because bots precipitated final point and can't capture it, because respawning bots do not let them do it. But if increase the level of one team and the lower the level of the other, they will be possible to capture. The reverse effect: if you team have 0.1 skill and enemies - 1.0, you can hold down the last point, being surrounded on all sides by enemies (some like a Left4Dead, lol). I think it should not be too difficult in coding. Thanks in advance
MarD
Heyyo,

QUOTE(Cheeseh @ Sep 27 2013, 06:06 AM) *

well it would be good to see some other source bots plugin source to see how they work, but this one is just blank, there is no code.

Anyway, with rcbot2 you can edit the rcbot2_mods.ini

mod = CUSTOM
steamdir = <parent game folder>
gamedir = <game folder>
bot = ZOMBIE

ah that sucks that Firearms Source has no bot support... also... Heyyo people. tongue.gif

I don't play CSS, TF2 or DODS anymore so that's why I've been pretty inactive here. I was thinking it would be neat with my spare PC to host a rcbot2 server on games that could use servers with a bot population like FA:S, Synergy 2 or Nuclear Dawn (Source Engine based stand-alone game) or the recently released stand-alone Source Engine mod... Fistful of Frags (which would be a perfect tdm game for RCBot2).

I know there's Marinebot for FA:S but its last update I think was 2012... which is quite a long time ago, it probably doesn't even work with the latest FA:S updates.
madmax2
Hey MarD,

Nice to have you drop by... Correct me if i'm wrong, but I thought FoF had bots? Yeah, it would be cool to see support for those games. I think synergy2 & nuclear dawn have been requested before, and Cheeseh suggests setting the bot_mods.ini for zombie bots, but he never gets any feedback on that? Maybe try that & see what happens? But, I guess you will need to make some waypoints too, which should be done on listen server. Maybe I'll get those games sometime, and see if I can make a waypoint, but don't wait for me, I'm slow & to busy right now... wink.gif

Anyways, welcome back... smile.gif

max
MarD
Heyyo,

So... Black Mesa Source could use some bots and waypointing eh? wink.gif

Otherwise? I'd love to see support for Synergy Coop so I could waypoint the crap outta the campaign. tongue.gif

http://store.steampowered.com/app/17520/

Currently RcBot2 only supports HL2DM, DODS and TF2.
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