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Septien
Here are the waypoints sprint/compatible (Rcbot 0.76) for probably my all time favorite Dod and DodS map: dod_hill_classic.

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You can download the map here: http://dods.gamebanana.com/maps/14733

I have included the waypoints here (0.76 compatible): Click to view attachment

A much improved gameplay, Axis will try to defend their base and each of their flags in a more balanced way. Thanks to MadMax2, Allies are able to capture the last waypoint which was impossible since bots can't capture points that are separated from their respective flag. Now with breakable waypoints this map rocks! Only Allies will try to shoot down the Axis' fortress wall.

Lastly, I would recommend having 6 Allies vs 4 Axis. That way it will be way more competitive.
Or play 4 vs 4 but team up with the Allies.

I hope you guys enjoy it, I spent quite some time trying to enhance the gameplay etc.

Pepois
madmax2
Wow, from out of nowhere biggrin.gif , thanks for the waypoint and welcome to the RCbot forums... I remember this map from the first dod v1.3beta era i think it was.... It was one of the first custom maps I played on dod with sturmbot 1.1, I believe... It was a really fun map in those days... I got your rcw, now i'll have to get the map. smile.gif

And please come back, we can always use another waypointer here.... wink.gif
Septien
QUOTE(madmax2 @ May 2 2013, 05:34 PM) *

Wow, from out of nowhere biggrin.gif , thanks for the waypoint and welcome to the RCbot forums... I remember this map from the first dod v1.3beta era i think it was.... It was one of the first custom maps I played on dod with sturmbot 1.1, I believe... It was a really fun map in those days... I got your rcw, now i'll have to get the map. smile.gif

And please come back, we can always use another waypointer here.... wink.gif


Thank you Madmax2, I've been doing waypoints back since Cstrike 1.5 so I've been around. Personally, DodS is my favorite Half-Life2 mod and its a pitty that here in Argentina no one plays it anymore so using bots is just about the only option for me. And working with a great bot such as RCbot2 gets the job done quite well! Having playable bots for this particular map is like a dream come true! I'll try to add more waypoints for other DodS maps as time allows it.

Warm regards

Pepois
genmac
Nice!
Now downloading map and wpts...
Btw as Madmax2 ( aka flash_gordon hehe tongue.gif ) mentioned...Welcome to the forum!


Ok tested it and here's one little wpt flaw:
Axis always get stuck on the second ladder in the corner disrupting the flow of axis bots
as they try and try to get out but couldn't so they go back the longer way out on the other corner with stairs
which kinda helps the allies assault as the axis gets delayed to go back and guard their fortress.
Aside that everything seems very smooth.
Emotional
nice work
madmax2
QUOTE(genmac @ May 2 2013, 09:55 PM) *

Btw as Madmax2 ( aka flash_gordon hehe tongue.gif ) mentioned...Welcome to the forum!

And I where spandex while I waypoint too... tongue.gif
Septien
QUOTE(genmac @ May 3 2013, 04:55 AM) *

Nice!
Now downloading map and wpts...
Btw as Madmax2 ( aka flash_gordon hehe tongue.gif ) mentioned...Welcome to the forum!
Ok tested it and here's one little wpt flaw:
Axis always get stuck on the second ladder in the corner disrupting the flow of axis bots
as they try and try to get out but couldn't so they go back the longer way out on the other corner with stairs
which kinda helps the allies assault as the axis gets delayed to go back and guard their fortress.
Aside that everything seems very smooth.


Hi Genmac,
I accidentally uploaded the wrong set, I have corrected this so there shouldn't be any problems now.

So everyone please feel free to download the "fixed" version on the main thread.

Pepois
madmax2
Thanks for the update, got it... smile.gif btw, if you have other rcw's in the works or plan to do something, you might want to let us know, so we aren't duplicating your efforts.. I'll do the same if i ever get off this flash rcw i keep tinkering with.. heh heh... rolleyes.gif

For now you could post your wpt plans here, but i'm thinking we need to create a specific thread for dods maps that we want to claim, or announce we will be waypointing. It should only be for claiming maps to waypoint, not for other waypointing issues. It probably should be in the dods waypointing section, i guess? What do you guys think, yea or nay on this idea? wink.gif

[edit] maybe it should be in the main rcbot2 waypoints section, as a "dods waypoint request & claim" thread? So new users will find it easier? Not sure which is the best location, I see tf2 requests there....
madmax2
Here is a blast from the past... I went back to check the flags on the original dod_hill from dod v1.3beta mod. I had the old 1.3 maps zipped up, so I loaded it into dod v3.1beta mod which is still on my old PC. I found out in that old version of the map, the flags were not on top of the structures, but in the same plain as the capture areas, which might be instant flag caps, cause the sturmbot wpt didn't have capture wpts next to the flag wpts... Anyways, I took a couple snapshots of the map... laugh.gif

http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/7/14/332...od_hill0001.jpg

http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/7/14/332...od_hill0000.jpg
madmax2
Hey Septien,

Here is the "tweaked" hill_classic rcw you asked for. I was still messing around with it last night, so it has wpts on all the flags, you may want to remove those, except the one on the wall of corse? I would test it both ways, with & without flag wpts, I really had not determined which way was working best yet. With sturmbot, there would be no capture area on the flag itself, just a flag wpt. I tried rcbot's flag wpt, but they didn't seem to react well to it, since it's ment for tf2, i think.... rolleyes.gif

[edit] removed attachment..... Sounds good Septien, will try it out soon, proning those 3 wpts was a good idea... smile.gif
Septien
QUOTE(madmax2 @ May 17 2013, 08:20 PM) *

Hey Septien,

Here is the "tweaked" hill_classic rcw you asked for. I was still messing around with it last night, so it has wpts on all the flags, you may want to remove those, except the one on the wall of corse? I would test it both ways, with & without flag wpts, I really had not determined which way was working best yet. With sturmbot, there would be no capture area on the flag itself, just a flag wpt. I tried rcbot's flag wpt, but they didn't seem to react well to it, since it's ment for tf2, i think.... rolleyes.gif


Thank you so mucho Madmax2!!! I will definitely have a good look at what you mentioned!

Pepois

edited

I have worked with the wpts and updated them both here and in Rcbots main waypoint site using your recomendations, thank you for your time Madmax2, now it works much better! *I added prone waypoints to the 3 waypoints near the pole so allies can spend a bit more time within the area and I did remove the machinegun/sniper/no axies tags on the wpts inside the trenches.

Pepois
Septien
Madmax2,

Here I included the waypoints for this map so you can see yourself bots not capturing any flag except the last one due to unreachable waypoints near the flags. If you can try also to dl the last updated version you will see that I removed just one unreachable waypoint from each flag and now bots can capture them.


Wpts where bots cant capture the first 3 flags: Click to view attachment
Pepois
genmac
here's an idea tip that might help as well...change the capture wpt to a "bombs" wpt and make them start proning or crouching once the cap icons shows up towards it so it takes time for them to reach the bomb wpt thus completing the cap. I think bots are very aggressive on getting to bomb wpts so this might help for making them pursue the undetected caps more efficiently...and kinda simulates that proning thing sturmbot does when it caps flags.

-- Ok tested it ....it didn't work! bot's never stop at the bombs wpts simply bec. there no bombs nearby to validate the wpt so it just went ahead as if it's just a normal wpt.

Anyway seems Max is very busy wpting sora hehe so I tested the updated wpt seems working fine already. Allies can capture all goals in about 2 mins with no axis bothering them. The capture prone wpts definitely helped a lot. Axis no longer stuck out on the second corner ladder. Good work!
madmax2
QUOTE(genmac @ May 17 2013, 10:06 PM) *

Anyway seems Max is very busy wpting sora hehe so I tested the updated wpt seems working fine already. Allies can capture all goals in about 2 mins with no axis bothering them. The capture prone wpts definitely helped a lot. Axis no longer stuck out on the second corner ladder. Good work!

Hey Septien,

Yeah, as genmac said, good work, the proneing idea works well smile.gif . I observed them and played a couple games last night. I played on allied side, even teams, but could not get that last flag in the fortress, it was fun though... It's a bit laggey on my crapy PC... Huge open map + bots + steam = lag for me...

The 3 bunker flags + unreachables behavior is strange, since you can put an unreachable right on the wall flag and it doesn't seem to bother the bots a bit! blink.gif All 4 flags are detected as capture (yellow) when placing a new wpt on them, so i'm not sure what the difference would be, it's a mystery?

Yep, I've been busy with sora. Most all main paths have been done, I'm adding the defensive, ambush and hiding places now. But I've been having more crash problems on this map (sora), not sure what's going on? I tried 3 different rcbot versions, then turned down the in game video settings which may of helped a little? Crashes (to desktop) have been while wpting + bots running, or just spectating bots, not during real game play, which I havn't tried yet. There were quite a few yesterday. So I may post a wip rcw before i'm done, so someone can play test it & check for crashes??

Oh, and I tried toggling rcbot_runplayer_hookonce, no help. Maybe i need to put my house fan on it... laugh.gif

Later Guys,
max
Septien
QUOTE(madmax2 @ May 18 2013, 06:04 PM) *

Hey Septien,

Yeah, as genmac said, good work, the proneing idea works well smile.gif . I observed them and played a couple games last night. I played on allied side, even teams, but could not get that last flag in the fortress, it was fun though... It's a bit laggey on my crapy PC... Huge open map + bots + steam = lag for me...

The 3 bunker flags + unreachables behavior is strange, since you can put an unreachable right on the wall flag and it doesn't seem to bother the bots a bit! blink.gif All 4 flags are detected as capture (yellow) when placing a new wpt on them, so i'm not sure what the difference would be, it's a mystery?

Yep, I've been busy with sora. Most all main paths have been done, I'm adding the defensive, ambush and hiding places now. But I've been having more crash problems on this map (sora), not sure what's going on? I tried 3 different rcbot versions, then turned down the in game video settings which may of helped a little? Crashes (to desktop) have been while wpting + bots running, or just spectating bots, not during real game play, which I havn't tried yet. There were quite a few yesterday. So I may post a wip rcw before i'm done, so someone can play test it & check for crashes??

Oh, and I tried toggling rcbot_runplayer_hookonce, no help. Maybe i need to put my house fan on it... laugh.gif

Later Guys,
max


Hey Max,

Sounds great! I would love to give your Sora a try!

Btw I was trying out the bots in dod_hill_classic last nite too and made some final modifications... I added prone waypoints to all flags so now bot will always capture them once they are inside the bunkers. I also added unreachable waypoints with their corresponding area... I think now I got the hang of it. I have updated all links including the one I did for the sniper map.

If I understood sniper and machine gun waypoints should have the same area as the capture point/flag they are attacking. And unreachable waypoints should have the corresponding area where they are located. I would love if you could take a look at the sniper/machine gun wpts and unreachable wpts and let me know if they are ok.

Pepois
madmax2
QUOTE

If I understood sniper and machine gun waypoints should have the same area as the capture point/flag they are attacking.

Sure, i'll check it out sometime later today. Yes, as a general rule, thats correct, sniper/mg/defend/capture wpts should have the same area as the nearby flag area. As cheeseh said, the flag area is set by the mapper, and rcbot reads this when placing a flag wpt. So, other special wpts in the area should be the same area number.

Now I have been experimenting with this a bit on dod_flash, breaking the rule, by placing different area tags on a few of those in between areas. Trying to get one or 2 bots to move further forward into the map when they get backed up. I have something in the works for flash, a demonstration wpt you might say, but haven't finished it yet... I've had mixed results with it, getting it balanced, but plan to finish & post it...

Now as far as I know, areas on unreachable wpts are not necessary & don't do anything...? Unreachables are simply a marker to help bots locate danger locations (& stimulate grenade throwing), usually from a distance, as i understand them... So, areas on them shouldn't be needed... They are also suppose to block bots from trying to walk to them, but that didn't happen on that one wall flag in this map!! blink.gif

max
Septien
QUOTE(madmax2 @ May 18 2013, 10:13 PM) *

Sure, i'll check it out sometime later today. Yes, as a general rule, thats correct, sniper/mg/defend/capture wpts should have the same area as the nearby flag area. As cheeseh said, the flag area is set by the mapper, and rcbot reads this when placing a flag wpt. So, other special wpts in the area should be the same area number.

Now I have been experimenting with this a bit on dod_flash, breaking the rule, by placing different area tags on a few of those in between areas. Trying to get one or 2 bots to move further forward into the map when they get backed up. I have something in the works for flash, a demonstration wpt you might say, but haven't finished it yet... I've had mixed results with it, getting it balanced, but plan to finish & post it...

Now as far as I know, areas on unreachable wpts are not necessary & don't do anything...? Unreachables are simply a marker to help bots locate danger locations (& stimulate grenade throwing), usually from a distance, as i understand them... So, areas on them shouldn't be needed... They are also suppose to block bots from trying to walk to them, but that didn't happen on that one wall flag in this map!! blink.gif

max

Thank you for the insight Max! Btw, you sure did a hell of a job with dod_flash! I also love that map.

Pepois
Cheeseh
QUOTE(Septien @ May 18 2013, 11:55 PM) *

Thank you for the insight Max! Btw, you sure did a hell of a job with dod_flash! I also love that map.

Pepois


Hey guys, ive been away for a while and am still in hospital with the wife. Our baby girl was born a few days ago.

Anyway as for unreachables. They are there to help waypoint visibility, which has some usefulness to it:
1. It helps bots know where some enemies shot them and take cover

Some waypoints , eg at bunkers are not visible to the victim because they are behind a bunker.
So the algorithm takes the nearest waypoint visible to both the victim and attacker.
If there is an unreachable just above the bunker, this waypoint will likely be chosen as the attackers location. Bots will take cover from that waypoint by running to the nearest waypoint that is invisible .

2. It helps bots through grenades

When an enemy hides or runs away the bot remembers the waypoint the enemy was last seen. Sometimes this is behind sandbags or through a door. Normally doors are no problem because they are already waypointed and bots can go through them. But if an enemy for eg. Crouches behind a sandbag and is invisible the bot will remember , just as above, using the same algorithm. Normally that would be the best waypoint for a bot to throw a grenade (over the sandbag) as it has more chance of hurting the enemy if the aim is good. If not it would just land in front and the enmy would be shielded by the sandbags

3. They help bots look and dangerous points

Throughout the game , bots update their danger level at every waypoint . Bots look at dangrous waypoints around them (from the paths of the next waypoint they are moving towards) . This might be on a bridge where there is a sniper spot in the far distance to the left or right where bots wouldnt normally look. So stick an unreachable waypoint VISIBLE to both sniper and dangerous waypoints and connect them with a path to the dangerous waypoint only. You will see the path turn red. This will make bots think about looking up to that sniper point
madmax2
QUOTE

Hey guys, ive been away for a while and am still in hospital with the wife. Our baby girl was born a few days ago.

Made Congrats to Cheeseh thread.... post your best wishes there.... biggrin.gif
http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1776
QUOTE

1. It helps bots know where some enemies shot them and take cover

Yeah, I forgot about that, it helps bots find safe areas, where to take cover...

Very informative info on #2 & #3, also. So it helps to have the unreachable visible to both the attacker (sniper) and the target (danger point), draw a path from the danger point to the unreachable near the attackers point. Hard to see points to left & right too... smile.gif
genmac
well hello there Daddy Cheeseh hehe!


I experimented on no unreachables on a fully re-wpted genmac's style wpts tongue.gif for dod_anzio and I'm quite happy with the result...those sniper's at the tower drove me nuts little though but their working atleast 80-90% of the time.

As for dod_hill man I kinda hate what the mapper did on the flags coz their up there but seems the bots are detecting them anyway.

For the undetected one inside the camp adding like 3 noaxis prone defend wpts might help coz it will pull the allies more towards there, hopefully.

Yo max!!! let me try test your sora wpts WIP to check if the map is causing some crashes.
madmax2
QUOTE(genmac @ May 18 2013, 11:53 PM) *

Yo max!!! let me try test your sora wpts WIP to check if the map is causing some crashes.

Sure genmac, I should have a wip rcw ready to post sometime today. Just want to tweak a few more things. I want it to be a playable rcw... wink.gif

max
madmax2
QUOTE(Septien @ May 18 2013, 03:55 PM) *

Thank you for the insight Max! Btw, you sure did a hell of a job with dod_flash! I also love that map.

Pepois

Pepois

Thanks for the compliment. I worked very hard on modifying the flash rcw... There still may be another update at some point, but I think the one I posted in the flash thread is fairly good...?
QUOTE

Hey Max,

Sounds great! I would love to give your Sora a try!

Btw I was trying out the bots in dod_hill_classic last nite too and made some final modifications... I added prone waypoints to all flags so now bot will always capture them once they are inside the bunkers. I also added unreachable waypoints with their corresponding area... I think now I got the hang of it. I have updated all links including the one I did for the sniper map.

If I understood sniper and machine gun waypoints should have the same area as the capture point/flag they are attacking. And unreachable waypoints should have the corresponding area where they are located. I would love if you could take a look at the sniper/machine gun wpts and unreachable wpts and let me know if they are ok.

Pepois

First I should say, everything below the next paragragh is just opinion, and how I would approach waypointing this, what you have done so far works very well, and my suggestions might not work well? It's just ideas for discussion, if you are still working on this? It's such a huge map for the bots to defend, there are probably many ways to wpt it.... wink.gif

I took a look at hill last night with the .73beta. The area tags looked ok to me. I do have a couple more ideas for you if you want to work on this more? I should check it out with the latest .74 release though...

One thing I can suggest now, is at the axis spawn area, make those ladders one-way, up only. There is no reason I can see for axis bots to go back down the ladders there, once they are up them. And at the the stairs there too, put a one way path at the bottom of the stairs, this will allow bots to take cover at the stairs, but will prevent them from back tracking to the ladders. I've seen a number of axis bots return to these ladders & go back down them, this will prevent that.... smile.gif

Opinion:
Another thing, as an ally, I didn't have too much trouble working my way around the back side of the fortress using the stairs or huge wall on the east side, I think it was area1 bunker side. Also, the allies seem to cap the first 3 bunkers fairly easily now. Any axis snipers/mg's in there probably get shot in the back when an allied bot/player goes in there. So, what I suggest first, is at the entrance to each bunker, remove the defend tags you have there, inside the bunkers, just make those wpts normal/area0 wpts. Then outside area1 bunker put a couple area1 defend wpts maybe one on the big wall there, and one on the path leading to the back side of the fortress. Keep both near and in sight of the stairs and bunker entrance there.. The defend wpts are goto/short camping wpts for the bots, this will help them patrol and protect the front bunkers better, I think... i think there is a blowable wall in this map somplace, but haven't really looked for it. Players might try to use that if its on the back side of the fortress. But I think you want to concentrate the defenses on the front side, like it is now, I think they just need to cover the outside of the bunkers a little better. West side bunker (area2), may not need much, due to the high traffic there, maybe one defend on the path outside the west wall facing area2 & main fortress entrance. The forward, area0 bunker is a bit tricky, maybe just put a couple area0 defend wpts on the short wall in front of the fortress, one on each side of the nonflagged bunker, facing area0 bunker. this, and the area1 defend wpts will help keep a constant flow of bots to that east front corner of the map, and they will camp a short while too.

Another reason I suggest this, is because of the thick wall on the front of the fortress, the snipers/mg's there can't see the enemies right below them, and the allies can just run right by them. Also, inside the bunkers, you might want to seperate the mg & sniper wpts into sniper only & mg only, one at each window. Or you could make the forward facing ones combo sniper/mg, like they are now, and make the side ones mg only or defend only. I'm thinking in terms of sniper=long range, mg=medium range, and defend=short range. So put each class only where they are most useful, and spread them out on the front half of the fortress, it's such a huge area for them to cover.

With .73beta, bots seem to have some visibilty issues with the thick wall in front and at the AAA sniper position, which can't be placed any better than you have it now. The sniper there isn't seeing allies coming up the path too well, it may be the angle, not sure? For that I should test this with .74 first, to see if it's the same or not? But if it's the same, first try removing the unreachable right in front of the sniper, and see what that does? If that doesn't help, connect a path from the sniper wpt down to the unreachable on the concrete block in the path there, maybe repeat this for each concrete block there. According to what everyone has been saying, this should not be needed for snipers, so it may not help? Maybe changing the yaw/angle would help? I don't know if it's fixable, I just see the allies run up the path sometimes and shoot this sniper in the back.

Anyways, just idea's, if you are still playing around with this. I don't know how well they will work, just things I might try... wink.gif

Best Regards,
max

P.S. I posted a sora_b3 rcw, you can try out, if you want too...?


Septien
Wow!!!

Didn't expect that! Thank you Max for all the detailed feedback!!! I will take the time to do as you suggested!
Making ladders one way sounds good and changing a one way waypoint before the stairs will do.
Also to improve the bunker traffic in area 1 it's a good idea. Btw, the breakable wall is the one in front if that same bunker in area 1. I wasn't aware if this until I saw the bots destroy it. I was wondering if I can put an openslater waypoint there. I remember podbot (?) had a breakable waypoint for Cstrike 1.5 that was pretty handy.

And yes, I saw the same issues... allies killing snipers and machine gun axies holding inside bunkers and also the ones on top of the big wall not being able to spot incoming allies working their way up hill.
I will try connecting sniper wpts to target unreachables. I wonder if that also would help for machine gun wpts.

Thank you Max.
madmax2
Hey Septien,

Yeah, an openslater path should work for that wall. I use them all the time with rcbot1, but haven't had an opportunity to use them with rcbot2 yet. I think it's a little different proceedure, i think it requires an openslatter wpt on both both sides of the wall with rcbot2? Did you happen to notice which team destroyed the wall, i hope the axis aren't "breaking" thier own wall?? Or did the allies bomb it?? unsure.gif

For that AAA sniper, I allready tried removing the unreachable right in front of him and that didn't help. If connected unreachables near the path doesn't work, you may have to try moving the sniper wpt over closer to the path in that corner, or yaw? Snipers sometimes seem to have trouble looking down on targets, when standing? Maybe .74r2 will help? i just got it downloaded.

As for that thick wall behind the AAA, now that proneing should be fixed with .74, you could prone the sniper wpts on top of the wall there, and they will see & snipe much better, i think? if that works, and allies start killing the axis snipers there on a regular basis, you could make the ladders one way up, and trap them there, so they stay till killed. If you do that, and like the way it works, you could try a defend wpt there, but i think i would leave it for sniper and/or mg only area0, to protect that front bunker. And only 2 or 3 positions, you don't want to many bots trapped there, and only do it if the allies are able to pick them off and kill them...?

Oh and you asked about unreachables & mg's. Well i thought with .72 it was helping with both sniper & mg vision? But from what genmac & cheeseh have said, it may not. Maybe the unreachables only help the snipers & mg's find targets when they are moving from one location to another, spoting the unreachables as danger areas? Once they are on a camp mg/snipe wpt, they may go into a different searching algorythm/routine for finding targets? I'm not sure, and need to play around with this a bit more, on sora?

Well, I hope I'm not annoying you with all the suggestions, but i've gone this far, so may as well give one more, heh heh rolleyes.gif ... In that tall tower, I don't remember for sure, but I would remove any defend wpts/tags that might be there, just go with sniper and maybe mg. The front facing position is a good one, but I would consider whether the side ones are helping much. If not I would remove one or both, depending on what you observe? You can leave the normal wpts for them to use, just untag them... You can leave some non-bot locations for humans players only, if the bots are ineffective there...?

Anyways, as you can tell, i love to tweak wpts and try different things. Thats why I'm so slow at getting them done, laugh.gif ...

Happy wpt'n smile.gif ,

max
Septien
QUOTE(madmax2 @ May 21 2013, 07:51 PM) *

Hey Septien,

Yeah, an openslater path should work for that wall. I use them all the time with rcbot1, but haven't had an opportunity to use them with rcbot2 yet. I think it's a little different proceedure, i think it requires an openslatter wpt on both both sides of the wall with rcbot2? Did you happen to notice which team destroyed the wall, i hope the axis aren't "breaking" thier own wall?? Or did the allies bomb it?? unsure.gif

For that AAA sniper, I allready tried removing the unreachable right in front of him and that didn't help. If connected unreachables near the path doesn't work, you may have to try moving the sniper wpt over closer to the path in that corner, or yaw? Snipers sometimes seem to have trouble looking down on targets, when standing? Maybe .74r2 will help? i just got it downloaded.

As for that thick wall behind the AAA, now that proneing should be fixed with .74, you could prone the sniper wpts on top of the wall there, and they will see & snipe much better, i think? if that works, and allies start killing the axis snipers there on a regular basis, you could make the ladders one way up, and trap them there, so they stay till killed. If you do that, and like the way it works, you could try a defend wpt there, but i think i would leave it for sniper and/or mg only area0, to protect that front bunker. And only 2 or 3 positions, you don't want to many bots trapped there, and only do it if the allies are able to pick them off and kill them...?

h and you asked about unreachables & mg's. Well i thought with .72 it was helping with both sniper & mg vision? But from what genmac & cheeseh have said, it may not. Maybe the unreachables only help the snipers & mg's find targets when they are moving from one location to another, spoting the unreachables as danger areas? Once they are on a camp mg/snipe wpt, they may go into a different searching algorythm/routine for finding targets? I'm not sure, and need to play around with this a bit more, on sora?

Well, I hope I'm not annoying you with all the suggestions, but i've gone this far, so may as well give one more, heh heh rolleyes.gif ... In that tall tower, I don't remember for sure, but I would remove any defend wpts/tags that might be there, just go with sniper and maybe mg. The front facing position is a good one, but I would consider whether the side ones are helping much. If not I would remove one or both, depending on what you observe? You can leave the normal wpts for them to use, just untag them... You can leave some non-bot locations for humans players only, if the bots are ineffective there...?

Anyways, as you can tell, i love to tweak wpts and try different things. Thats why I'm so slow at getting them done, laugh.gif ...

Happy wpt'n smile.gif ,

max


Haha Max, I love tweaking wpts too but until I get a sensation of final accomplishment. I have just updated them and are ready for downloading following your recomendations. I did leave a couple of defender waypoints inside the bunkers so other axies classes can hop in. And the idea of alllies sneaking behind axis sniping inside the bunkers its not so bad since as I am sure you well know, Axies have quite and advantage in general since the last capture point is inside their base. So I like the idea of giving allies a little extra help. Nonetheless, I did remove sniper entities from some waypoints inside the bunkers and on the towers since I followed your advice... snipers-longrange etc. I also added links from sniper/machineguns wpts to unreachable targets hoping they would aim at them. I also added some defend point on outside area1 to have more traffic there.

Btw, I came up with another question for you: can I link a sniper/machinegun wpt to more than one unreachable wpt?

About the TOWER... I didnt have any defend wpts but I was also thinking about removing the sides and only the front wpt... Ill do it and play with it.

Thank you so much MAX
madmax2
Hey Septien,

I'm sorry, I didn't see you had posted a new rcw. I'll get it & try it out today when i get .74 installed... yeah, you are right about axis having an advantage, so that must be considered too...
QUOTE

Btw, I came up with another question for you: can I link a sniper/machinegun wpt to more than one unreachable wpt?

Yep, I did that on flash, but from what genmac & cheeseh have said, I don't know for sure if it will help, but you can try it... I'm going to try it too on sora & see if it helps a sniper up in a high window, he seemed to have problems detecting enemies below him, but in view, with .73beta...

max
Septien
QUOTE(madmax2 @ May 21 2013, 08:35 PM) *

Hey Septien,

I'm sorry, I didn't see you had posted a new rcw. I'll get it & try it out today when i get .74 installed... yeah, you are right about axis having an advantage, so that must be considered too...

Yep, I did that on flash, but from what genmac & cheeseh have said, I don't know for sure if it will help, but you can try it... I'm going to try it too on sora & see if it helps a sniper up in a high window, he seemed to have problems detecting enemies below him, but in view, with .73beta...

max


I forgot to mentioned that I made the ladders and stairs one way as you mentioned and it helped a lot! I also polished the 2nd ladders where axis would get stuck climbing the first time. So now they climb ladders flawlessly.

Btw do you have a link for the Sora map?

Pepois
madmax2
QUOTE

Btw do you have a link for the Sora map?

Yep, I put 2 in the sora thread, and the crashing seems to be gone!!! biggrin.gif

[edit]
Hey Septien,

Just a little play testing feedback. I played five 10min games on Hill tonite. Your waypoint worked very well. I played all rounds as allied rifleman, 7vs7, evenly matched teams/classes, 2 snipers per team. It was quite fun and challenging from allied side. I thought you might want to know, the mg position in the tall tower, that faces east (area1) bunker, picked me off 3 times, trying to sneak up the stairs next to area1 bunker cool.gif . The first time I had no idea who was shooting at me, and kept ducking down the stairs, till I stuck my head out one to many times, then I knew, heh heh... So the tower mg facing east works good, he will get human players, there... Oh, also by that same bunker, an axis support got me in the back right as i reached the top of the stairs, he was standing on the bridge there.. The front tower mg is good too, he was spraying bullets all the way to the allied spawn area. Bullets were splashing in the pond in front of me, so I put a couple rounds right in the middle of the tower window and picked him off, lucky shot i guess, heh heh...

As well as running into axis around area1 bunker, getting killed sometimes, I did run into a few on the back side of the fortress, too, not everytime, but enough to keep me cautious. Once I reached the west side of the fortress, usually I proned 30ft from the main entrance there, and picked off axis bots as they came out. But soon enough, they would remember me, and target me as soon as they came out, if i lived that long??? I did make a couple attempts for the fort capture area, but never made it. One or two games, the allies had the first 3 flags with 7+ minutes left, but we could never get the last cap, with that many axis. Still fun tho, I like the challenge... wink.gif

So, good work on the rcw, It was much harder to get into the fortress, than the last time I played this. I could see the axis patroling the front and perimiter of the fort a lot more than before...

Anyways, just a bit of feedback, I had a good time playing it... biggrin.gif

max
Septien
QUOTE(madmax2 @ May 22 2013, 01:29 AM) *

Yep, I put 2 in the sora thread, and the crashing seems to be gone!!! biggrin.gif

[edit]
Hey Septien,

Just a little play testing feedback. I played five 10min games on Hill tonite. Your waypoint worked very well. I played all rounds as allied rifleman, 7vs7, evenly matched teams/classes, 2 snipers per team. It was quite fun and challenging from allied side. I thought you might want to know, the mg position in the tall tower, that faces east (area1) bunker, picked me off 3 times, trying to sneak up the stairs next to area1 bunker cool.gif . The first time I had no idea who was shooting at me, and kept ducking down the stairs, till I stuck my head out one to many times, then I knew, heh heh... So the tower mg facing east works good, he will get human players, there... Oh, also by that same bunker, an axis support got me in the back right as i reached the top of the stairs, he was standing on the bridge there.. The front tower mg is good too, he was spraying bullets all the way to the allied spawn area. Bullets were splashing in the pond in front of me, so I put a couple rounds right in the middle of the tower window and picked him off, lucky shot i guess, heh heh...

As well as running into axis around area1 bunker, getting killed sometimes, I did run into a few on the back side of the fortress, too, not everytime, but enough to keep me cautious. Once I reached the west side of the fortress, usually I proned 30ft from the main entrance there, and picked off axis bots as they came out. But soon enough, they would remember me, and target me as soon as they came out, if i lived that long??? I did make a couple attempts for the fort capture area, but never made it. One or two games, the allies had the first 3 flags with 7+ minutes left, but we could never get the last cap, with that many axis. Still fun tho, I like the challenge... wink.gif

So, good work on the rcw, It was much harder to get into the fortress, than the last time I played this. I could see the axis patroling the front and perimiter of the fort a lot more than before...

Anyways, just a bit of feedback, I had a good time playing it... biggrin.gif

max


Max,

Thank you for all the feedback,it sure helped improved the wpts and bots gameplay. I have added a last final update changing the machinegins/snipers positions and adding a prone sniper in the wall. I also improved the tower ladders... even though Axies will still sometimes fall to their death. I can see this happens mainly when they turn around not facing the ladders but facing the allies base.

Just for experimental reasons... I went as far as to give specific area paths for Allies hoping bots would split and take a path according to the area flag they were planning on attacking but didnt work.Bots like using the main center path. Snipers on the other hand go on the side paths. Thats why I left the sniper wpts for allies even though I thought about removing them so Allies would try to focus mainly in capturing but like I mentioned it adds more diversity! Lastly, I did add a couple of openslater to the breakable wall in area1 and added a defend wpt for both allies and axies and it works!!!

Anyway I feel quite happy with the overall experience!

Thank you for your insight and precious time

Edit.... I had uploaded the wrong rcw... I have NOW uploaded the correct one... (0.74 compatible)

Pepois
madmax2
Hey Septien,

Thanks for another update smile.gif . I'll definatly be playing this again. I still want to try and cap that fortress. It's a bit of a challenge with 14 bots/players. I like it... heh heh... yeah, after I was done playing last night, I finally turned the wpts on and found where that bombable wall was at. I just couldn't figure out where it was while playing? In fact I thought it was on the other side of the fortress..

Yeah, good ladder wpts are so important to bots, they can often make or break a wpt. I learned that a long time ago with rcbot1 & Natural Selection mod (it used lots of ladders). So it's good you have reworked those... smile.gif

Redownloaded rcw... smile.gif

max
CharlestonN
Wow, i can't believe people still play my map, i was just googling to see pictures of it to show someone and came across this thread

I use to go by NC|7 when i released this map, and i actually still have the VMF for it!

Does anyone know a server still running it? I haven't played it since i first released it and i'd love to check it out again for old times sake

If you guys liked Hill_Classic you might also like my new map coming out soon for public beta WN71, you can check it out here - http://forums.steamgames.com/forums/showth...429&page=14
genmac
QUOTE(CharlestonN @ Jun 15 2013, 10:47 PM) *

Wow, i can't believe people still play my map, i was just googling to see pictures of it to show someone and came across this thread

I use to go by NC|7 when i released this map, and i actually still have the VMF for it!

Does anyone know a server still running it? I haven't played it since i first released it and i'd love to check it out again for old times sake

If you guys liked Hill_Classic you might also like my new map coming out soon for public beta WN71, you can check it out here - http://forums.steamgames.com/forums/showth...429&page=14

Welcome to the forum CharlestonN!
I'm sure Septien is more than happy seeing the author of his fav map here.

As for your new beach map well I've been following it, I'm Ironcore there.
madmax2
Hi CharlestonN,

Yeah, very cool beach map cool.gif , sounds like a lot of effort has gone into creating it. Moving boats, advance spawning, etc. I like the idea of the axis spawning right at the beach bunkers to keep the action level high on the beach, at the beginning. Ironcore, alias genmac wink.gif , is going to wpt it for us too, nice... Hope my old PC can run it...

As for hill_classic, you can always try rcbot2, if you can't find any servers running it.. Septien has done a great job on the waypoints.

@Septien

I played several rounds friday night on hill_classic with your latest rcw, the bots did great. Axis really patrol the front area well now, allies spread out and attack from all directions too. I played allies, 6vs7, then 7vs7, 2 mgs on axis, and it was a tough fight to get the front 3 bunkers. The mg's were tearing us up, nice... I think its about right, it should be a tough fight for the allies taking the hill & fort. I still couldn't get that last flag, the bombable wall was blown, but the breakable wall never was breached. I never tried to break it myself, maybe next time i'll try that? Oh, and the one time I did get into the fort, an mg was set up in the fort bunker and nailed me as I ran around the corner, ouch tongue.gif .... Fun stuff, and good job, Septien...

max
CharlestonN
Hey Ironcore!

Almost done with WN71, just waiting to get one more internal playtest scheduled then it should be ready for public release

@MadMax

Yeah, it's been a while in the making, i took a 'hiatus' from mapping for quite a while then when i decided to start mapping again i noticed a lot of people asking for the final product so i decided to finish it up

As for Hill_classic i will have to give it a try with the bots and see how it plays
Septien
QUOTE(madmax2 @ Jun 16 2013, 06:07 PM) *

Hi CharlestonN,

As for hill_classic, you can always try rcbot2, if you can't find any servers running it.. Septien has done a great job on the waypoints.

@Septien

I played several rounds friday night on hill_classic with your latest rcw, the bots did great. Axis really patrol the front area well now, allies spread out and attack from all directions too. I played allies, 6vs7, then 7vs7, 2 mgs on axis, and it was a tough fight to get the front 3 bunkers. The mg's were tearing us up, nice... I think its about right, it should be a tough fight for the allies taking the hill & fort. I still couldn't get that last flag, the bombable wall was blown, but the breakable wall never was breached. I never tried to break it myself, maybe next time i'll try that? Oh, and the one time I did get into the fort, an mg was set up in the fort bunker and nailed me as I ran around the corner, ouch tongue.gif .... Fun stuff, and good job, Septien...

max


WOW!!!!

Hi Cheeseh, Madmax, Genmac and CharlestonN,

@Madmax, @Cheeseh @Genmac
I've been away working... but I am so happy to see that finally you are all enjoying this great map from Mr. CharlestonN! I hope that Cheeseh can improve the rocket bots' aiming further and then it will be perfect!

@CharlesonN
I hope you give Rcbot2 a try and play your own legendary map. Like the guys have mentioned, its my ALL time favorite map and with Cheeseh's superb Rcbot2, imagine the joy!

Yor new map WN71map looks fantastic.... I am sure many of us will definitely enjoy it! Genmac will sure do!

Again, give Rcbot2 a try and a lot of good memories should comeback!

QUOTE(CharlestonN @ Jun 16 2013, 08:15 PM) *

As for Hill_classic i will have to give it a try with the bots and see how it plays


Do that, and let us know if this is what you had in mind when you created this incredible map! Btw, since you still have the VMF file... could you fix the water textures from inside the water? hehe thanxs!

Pepois (Septien)
madmax2
QUOTE
I've been away working...


Hey Septien,

Glad to see you back here smile.gif ... I was wondering why you were so quiet when CharlestonN posted here, the author of your favorite map!

I've been on a svencoop/rcbot1 kick the last few weeks, but plan to get back to dods soon. But first i've got to check out sc4.8, which was just released biggrin.gif ... and finish up some sven rcws i'm working on...

Later,
max
CharlestonN
Hey Septien, the waypoints you created work perfect, i played the map fr the first time since i released it and had a great time

Once i'm done with my 2 upcoming maps i may go in and see about the tweaks you mentioned

QUOTE(Septien @ Jun 30 2013, 06:31 PM) *

WOW!!!!

Hi Cheeseh, Madmax, Genmac and CharlestonN,

@Madmax, @Cheeseh @Genmac
I've been away working... but I am so happy to see that finally you are all enjoying this great map from Mr. CharlestonN! I hope that Cheeseh can improve the rocket bots' aiming further and then it will be perfect!

@CharlesonN
I hope you give Rcbot2 a try and play your own legendary map. Like the guys have mentioned, its my ALL time favorite map and with Cheeseh's superb Rcbot2, imagine the joy!

Yor new map WN71map looks fantastic.... I am sure many of us will definitely enjoy it! Genmac will sure do!

Again, give Rcbot2 a try and a lot of good memories should comeback!
Do that, and let us know if this is what you had in mind when you created this incredible map! Btw, since you still have the VMF file... could you fix the water textures from inside the water? hehe thanxs!

Pepois (Septien)

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