Hi Cheeseh and everyone,

It would be great to have a breakable objects waypoint for the the Rocket launcher bot class which would also be team specific (noallies/noaxis).

I remember Podbot had a breakable object waypoint (non-class specific) in Cstrike 1.5 and it was quite useful for getting bots to break through breakable objects such as a walls, floors etc. It would be a lot of fun specially using it with openslater wpts etc.

Yes, I'm thinking of dod_hill_classic and dod_sniperbridge_rc1 maps! Both have breakable objects! A wall inside the Axis' fortress (dod_hill_classic) and the center of the bridge deck (dod_sniperbridge_rc1).

If you could implement this Cheeseh it would be great!

It is already great!!! The bomb and openslater wpts are a blast!

-Edited- I just read through your post Genmac! Sorry for requesting the same features!

Greetings
Pepois

Can the breakable only be destoyed by a rocket? At the moment bots shoot breakables so if you were to put a waypoint through a breakable wihout it being openslater the bot should try to break before going throuh unless it can only be destroyed by a certain class.

Hi Cheeseh!!!

Thank you for the quick reply! I'm not too sure if other classes can break those particular objects/places but I will test it tomorrow since my wife has already warned me to come to bed now!!! Hehe

Thank you and goodnite

Pepois

Hi Cheeseh,

I went and tested both maps. Let's start with dod_sniperbridge_rc1. The bridge floor is breakable wih just about all types of firewapons: machine guns, rifles, automatic guns etc. Nonetheless, bots WON'T shoot at it and thus not break it.




For dod_hill_classic, the wall inside the fortress in front of area1 is only breakable with grenades/rockets and bots here aren't shooting either. It would be great to have either a rocket or grenade waypoint. I think either one would work for both maps but it would be nice to control who breaks the object. Since for instance, in dod_hill_classic, Axis wouldn't benefit from breaking their own defence wall.




Thank you Cheeseh

Btw, I saw you added a new fall waypoint in your 0.74 release. How does it work? Can you input how much damage a bot receives when falling? Actually in this dod_sniperbridge_rc1 map I had bots jump out of the bridge and fall on a small portion of water but sometimes they would fall to their death! Which makes it realistic! But sometimes they fall on the side of the bridge and still surive.You might want to give this map a look and see how your bots behave. Its quite a fun map even though its quite big and sniper-intended.

Pepois

Hey Septien,

I was running around in hill last nite and couldn't find that wall? Did you look at it with hammer or something to find it? And, any idea how many maps have breakable walls like this, I'm still new to dod:s...

Oh yeah, I didn't get a chance to try the latest hill rcw yet, but I will....

Heh heh, I don't have one of those warning systems you mentioned above...

max

okay I need to have a look at this map myself and debug it while bots are running to see why they aren't shooting the wall

Excellent Cheeseh!!!

I have just updated the map wpts again, totatlly reworked them so Allies are now using different paths!

Please search for Waypoint ID 514 which is suppose to connect to Waypoint ID 503 in order for Allies to break in the Axis fortress. They're outside bunker area1. I left them unconnected.

Pepois



Hey Max!!!!

I spent the last hours modifying the map! Did some major changes! I hope you like them. And hopefully if Cheeseh adds a breakable solution.... the map will be just awesome since I already played destroying the wall and the resutls are great!

Pepois

I'm in the process of adding breakable waypoints, but no function yet. Would you like bots to break it at a specific point in time or any time? I can't tell if a breakable can only be destroyed by a rocket or not so I think only rocket class will worry about these waypoints.

There is an issue in the sniper bridge map where the hole in the bridge would cause some waypoint paths to current waypoints on the bridge impossible to go to , so I'd need to think about how to deal with that.

With breakable walls., there should be no problem. breakable floors are more of an issue

Hi Cheeseh,

In regards to timing the breakable waypoints I suppose any time would be the best option to add realism so that bots can break them whenever they are near them. And I agree with you to only have the rocket class worry about them. It would be nice though to be able to use that very powerful and handy waypoint label -noaxies -noallies feature. That is if you are planning on adding breakable waypoints otherwise I suppose you can force specific team by modifying previous connected waypoints.

About the sniperbridge map... I'll tweak it so its ready to just add a connecting waypoint from the top and not interfering with other waypoints. Ill do in a few minutes.

Thank you so much Cheeseh. You're the man!

-Edited- Here are the modified waypoints for dod_sniperbridge_rc1: Click to view attachment

I already connected waypoints ID 931 and ID 653 to the flag inside the bridge. I thought it would be nice to have 2 waypoints; one for each side. The breakable hole will no longer interfere with the bridge path.

Thank you Cheeseh


Pepois

Hey , I just added a breakable waypoint functionality, and on the sniper bridge map, the rocket bots shot the breakable quite quickly. So looks good so far, but because I've made it really simple there might be some slight bugs with it.

Yeah maybe I could make it so no ally bots would try to break a noallies breakable

Excellent news Cheeseh!!!

Do you think I could test your new rcbot2? Maybe you can release it as a beta?

Pepois

good idea, here's a beta dll file for 0.75 it has some bug fixes too:



http://rcbot.bots-united.com/downloads/RCBot2_075BetaDLL.zip


you can still comment on the breakable waypoints in this thread

for any other aspects of the beta you can comment here: http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index....view=getnewpost

Thank you so much Cheeseh!!!!

I will dl it now and test it.

Thank you!!!

-Edited- Hi Cheeseh, I tested your new breakable waypoint! Its a wonderful tool I'm sure all wpters out there will definitely embrace it! It works great in dod_sniperbridge_rc1 map. However in dod_hill_classic, rocket bots miss the target! Their rockets pass above the waypoint. I tried lowering the wpt below the surface and even adding crouch and prone tags etc. but the result was the same. Also, all bot classes are trying to shoot at it which is not very convenient since in this particualr map only rockets/grenades can destroy the wall.

Maybe if you give it a smaller range radius so they can hit the wall right on the spot. In this particular wall, accuracy has to be very precise when aiming even for real players since the breakable spot is very tiny!

Anyway, great work Cheeseh!!!

Pepois

Cheeseh & Septien,

On hill classic I can verify rocket going over the wall. Also, for me it's the axis doing it. And not only rockets and grenades, but all classes appear to shoot at it (bullets too). I just tagged the normal wpt on the outside of the fortress with breakable/noaxis, is that the right way? Should there be paths to breakable wpts, and what about thier placement. I am using the side of the wall I would want allies to break it on (outside), but I suppose allies could break it from either side? But mainly I don't think we want axis breaking thier own defence wall.

I took a debug pic on an axis support bot targeting and shooting the wall. I also still hear them pulling the trigger on an empty clip a lot, I don't think they were completely out of ammo, I believe they will reload when out of view of the breakable wpt?

Debug pic: http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/7/14/332...classic0008.jpg

bullets: http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/7/14/332...classic0011.jpg

max

Hi Max!!!

Always one step ahead!!!
Yes, you are correct with the insight! Breakable wpts aren't supposed to be connected. And it doesn't matter on which side of the wall it's located... bots will try to shoot at it from both sides and from a long distance. And yes for now the noAllies/noAxies tags aren't working with this new wpt.


I will upload an updated version of the map. It's almost final for me Oh and thank you for the pics!!!

Pepois

Heh heh, ok sounds good... I'll cheeck out the new rcw when it's done... Yeah, for some reason I thought the noaxis tag was working on the new breakable wpt? I was playing it and saw what they were doing, the rockets over the wall caught my attention right away... I'm sure cheeseh will get it sorted out soon enough ....

max

I just uploaded an updated version!!!

Let me know what you think. I'm sure once the breakable gets "tuned in" it will get more fun!

Pepois

actually they CAN be connected which means they will only go through the path if the breakable is open or they can break it themselves

also in this beta dll the bots will still shoot the breakable regardless of noallies/noaxis flag.

The bots rocket launcher aiming needs to be improved and they need to remember that gravity pulls the rocket down, so that's why maybe they are shooting either too high or too low

Hi Cheeseh,

I suppose since you already have a great openslater waypoint perhaps is not needed to go through all the trouble to have breakable wpts connected but then again is "your baby". Actually, Podbot had them connected. Also, perhaps having all bots shoot at breakable wpts is not so bad after all but maybe just have them shoot at it a couple of times and then move on in order to avoid running out of ammo (but then again if accuracy is fixed perhaps this shouldn't be a problem since bots stop shooting once the target is destroyed). And yes!!! extremely improving the target aiming accuracy so bots can shoot precisely at the breakable wpt would be very welcomed as well as being able to use your powerful noallies/noaxis wpts with them!!!

Cheeseh, would it be too much trouble to tryout a fixed version in a new beta... soon? or will you go ahead and release a final release... soon? hehe

Looking forward and anxiously to tryout your new .dll.
Thank you for your expertise and your precious time!

Pepois

okay ! so action points:

1) if the breakable has either noallies or noaxis then only the allowed team will shoot the breakable?

2) improve bots aiming with rocket launcher?

3) stop shooting at breakable if already broken? (I think this is already done, but not sure if you meant this is what you want or what you observed)

4) only shoot the breakable if they have a lot of ammo (i.e. don't unload ammo on the breakable)

BTW with openslater, sometimes it doesnt work work breakables, it just goes through and thinks the path is open even when its closed, if you use a breakable waypoint then it will check specifically that the breakable is open or not .

are there any more 'action points' ?

Cheeseh,

So, are you making the breakable for rocket & grenade only? They are spraying bullets at it too...

The more I think about it, I kinda like the idea you had of it being rocket only, we could put unreachables there if we want them to throw grenades at it.... On hill, they have to get the nade very close to blow the wall.

So, sounds like we just use the breakables just like an openslater, cool...

max

[edit]
@Septien


Thanks, I got the rcw, will do...

Hi Cheeseh!!! Thank you for taking the time even though its Sunday!

I'll go through your action points:

1) if the breakable has either noallies or noaxis then only the allowed team will shoot the breakable? Roger that!

2) improve bots aiming with rocket launcher? YES please!!!

3) stop shooting at breakable if already broken? (I think this is already done, but not sure if you meant this is what you want or what you observed) They ALREADY do this which is GREAT!

4) only shoot the breakable if they have a lot of ammo (i.e. don't unload ammo on the breakable) That would be nice!

BTW with openslater, sometimes it doesnt work work breakables, it just goes through and thinks the path is open even when its closed, if you use a breakable waypoint then it will check specifically that the breakable is open or not . OK! I did take the time to see openslater wpts "interact" with the breakable wpts and they worked flawlessly but if breakables work much better then breakables is the way to go!

are there any more 'action points' ?

Not for breakables sir!

Perhaps you might want to grab the dod_hill_classis map and wpts just to like check for yourself how accurate rockets/grenades need to be. http://rcbot.bots-united.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1768

Thank you so much Cheeseh!

Hi Max,

I like the idea of Rockets only for the wall too but maybe for other maps that have breakables and can be destroyed by bullets etc. having any class shoot at it would be handy. Actually, maybe it would be great to have 2 types of breakable wpts... one breakable wpt for rockets only and a second breakable wpt for everyone... but maybe in practice that might not be too practical. What do you think?

Pepois

Hi Pepois,

Well, I think the only problem was detecting these walls & floors (bridge deck). They allready shoot other breakables like tables, etc, without wpts... 2 types of breakable wpts would give the waypointer the option to control what bots do, rockets only, or let all bots unload on the breakable, which would be a great option. But I just don't know how much extra codeing that makes for Cheeseh and not sure it's really needed? (I actually don't like seeing them waist ammo on chairs & tables, Seems like I saw a cvar to turn that off, or maybe thats rcbot1, can't remember?)

If they destroy the wall right away, it might be ok, but then you may rarely get to see them use a rocket on it? It just seems cooler to see them rocket things like this, and more realistic, not that this game is real...

I think I would like it limited to rockets only, or rockets & nades only, if we are only going to get one type of breakable wpt? My preference is rockets only, cause we can use unreachables for nades...

Regards,
max

You're right Max!!!

Rockets it should be then!

Pepois

Thanks Septien, then I think we agree ... One other thought about this...

By limiting it to rockets only, it gives players the chance to do it themselves, with rockets or nades. We don't want to have the bots do things so quickly, players don't get the opportunity. I don't think we need to limit the rocket bot in any way, cause he must get there alive first...

max

Exactly Max! Rocket bots should be very precise and not waste the opportunity of reaching a breakable wpt and destroying it before getting shot etc. Besides the fact that if you have enabled bots to change classes in your config.ini you will not always have a rocket bot shooting at the breakable target(s).

Pepois

Pepois,

Yeah, I don't have mine set up to allow class changes. I'm set for even teams 7vs7, most of the time. There is 1 rocket class per team. New users likely wouldn't be set up that way though.

I checked out your new rcw. In the first game I saw the axis rocket class hit the wall 3 times and destroy it. It seems they can hit the wall if they come up the nearest ladder from thier spawn. In another game the wall was destroyed, but I didn't see who did it, then I saw an allied rocket class coming across the bridge! I think he delt the final hit that did it? Then he used the breach to enter the fortress, nice...

I looked at the rcw and saw you nocliped the breakable wpt into the wall, with openslater on each side, it seemed to work fine. I don't know this for sure, but there could be maps that have walls or floors that can only be destroyed from one side?

I had an idea on how we could deal with the rocket loft, if there isn't an AI solution? We could have a rocket class only (rco) wpt to be used in combination with the breakable wpt. The waypointer would position the rco wpt at a location(s) where the target (breakable wpt) can be hit with rockets. So we would put the rco wpts either close or far away from the breakable, to account for the rocket arc. Rocket classes would not even see the breakable until they reach the rco wpt. They would only see rco wpts as a goal to goto (to destroy something). Then they would see the breakable & shoot... I suppose this could be done with or without a path to the breakable from the rco wpt. Rocket classes could proceed directly to the breakable once its destroyed if there's a path. Of coarse, I have no idea how much work this would be for cheeseh to add this?

Anyways, good results with this wpt, it will even be better when the noaxis/noallies is working. I'm looking forward to seeing cheeseh's solution. If anyone can figure it out, he can...

max

Thanks Max,

It surely will be great once Cheeseh comes with another brilliant rcbot release. I myself have continued retouching and improving the wpts for this amazing map. I guess I want to make it as good as the map, I feel like it's a big responsability on my behalf. Good thing I have such a great team to work with. Without Cheeseh's rcbot and your help and Genmac's... this wouldn't have happened!

I am quite satisfied now with the results. I got rid of bots getting stuck somewhere on the map due to falling away from the path or when engaging the enemy by filling the map with wpts making sure they didn't alter the paths/routes but rather helped getting bots back on track. I also improved the length between wpts since I noticed that if there is a big gap between them, bots will fall or get stuck somewhere more easily. Btw, I separated machine gun/sniper wpts from each other since if they are too close bots will not use more than one at the same time. In other words... You can have more than one bot using the same sniper/machinegun wpt at a given time but not two or more bots at the same time in nearby machine gun/sniper wpts if they are too close. I also improved the way they distribute and spread in the map; having them take different routes/paths according to the need (capture flag neeed to capture) otherwise they would always take the shortest route and eventually visit defend points as well as sniper/machinegun wpts.

So anyway, I'll upload it once we have Cheeseh's new rcbot.

Pepois

@Septien...seems you really love this dod_hill map and it's really good to know you're improving the wpts further and made Cheeseh come up with a new feature or improvements to breakables. I'll check it out.

OT...
I could have whine more on the shooting bug on dod_strand bunkers hehe but that seems to be more of map issue something Cheeseh can't do much now coz I think he already max out it's tracelines tweaks so I resorted to modding the map itself since I really love that map too and I want axis shooting mercilessly off the bunkers.

Hi Genmac,

I love dod_strand!!! Were you the one who made wpts for it? The wpts are great!!! And the map is my 2nd most favorite! Too bad the water textures couldn't be fixed! Could they?

Btw, I love flying! Using simulators of course (FSX & X-Plane)! Since I was a kid I learned how to navigate using VORS etc (flight simulator II, 1980s). Anyway, so I love flying WWII aircrafts; German and Allies: Messerschmitt 109s, Me262s; FokkerWulf 190s; Stuka J-u87s; B-17s; P-40s; P-38s; P-51s; Spitfires; Mosquitos etc. I also love watching WWII documentaries etc. I guess that's why dod and dods are really special for me. Specially maps like dod_strand!

Thought it would be nice to share that with you guys though it's totally out of topic

Pepois

I started laying the basic wpts for it but couldn't complete it bec. rcbot2 beta 0.7 could not detect the other bomb areas aside the bombtoopen wpt wasn't implemented yet so Cheeseh completed the wpt once the bug were fix and I just imagine how long it took him to completely wpt it hehe.

Unfortunately the axis ain't shooting on the bunkers but I managed to find a solution. Will soon post the modded dod_strand soon and you'll be the first to check it hehe.

The water texture bug probably can be fix but I have no clue to do that since
I haven't tried mapping on source engine yet but their entity setting seems almost the same as gold source.

Yeah ww2 stuff are so cool though I wish valve would pay more attention to dods and give it some better updates like iron sights for all weapons, yeah I'm a COD player to LoL!

Nice!

I read at Dodsbanana someone talking about fixing the water texture, I quote him:

"Posted by Sharkbate For some reason the water texture is weird http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/9711/dodstrand0000.jpg can some one help me

I have the same issue
The texture needs "$additive" 1 in the vmt. But the texture is packed up with the map so I can't fix t :/"

It would be great if you could try to fix it Genmac!

Oh man really wish I could fix it but I can't do much about it since the texture seems deep inside the bsp itself so only way I know how to fix that is decompile the map first but that will create like a 100 more problems unless the decompiling tool is really really really good that's why no one really bothered. The author himself should easily fix that but seems he haven't yet.

More mapping talk if you guys don't mind hehe...I did lots of decompiling during my cs/hldm/dod mapping days mostly concentrated to de_dust, de_dust2, dod_omaha, dod_caen...ouch hehe! the decompiler really did a horrible job. it destroys the map basically so rebuilding and fixing it was more painful rather than just re-create the map from scratch which I did on de_dust and then reversed or mirrored it and here's the result ...pimping away lol!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2c8MYuP0cg

If you like you can check out my dod_dust2 7 flag cap with an additional route fully wpted already with 3 versions of sturmbot. Didn't bother release this coz I'm sure the cs/dod mapping community will flame me to death lol! They can't flame me now coz hl mods mapping is almost or dead already hehe.

Hi everyone,

I have just uploaded dod_hill_classic map and dod_sniperbridge_rc1 with Cheeseh's new Rcbot2 0.75 R2 update.

Enjoy it!

Hi Cheeseh,

How are you?

I hope you are doing great with the new family!

Anyway, I was thinking that perhaps you dont need to fix or improve the rocket bots' aiming... perhaps if you can tweak the distance when they can start shooting at the breakable wpt and make it way shorter so that they can only shoot it from like 10-30 feet away (maximun distance before shooting)... and maybe you can have them shoot at it even if they are too close and die from the explosion since if they are succesful they will die only once but then they will not have died in vain. (minimun distance starting from 1 feet)

If you could tweak it and let me test it... would be great.

I hope it doesnt require alot of effort on your behalf.

Best

Septien